An Idea

[Lloyd Gillespie]

"Intuition and Logic can not replace Math__Either..."rrr

after thought for the day...

"Math does not replace intuition and logic."

[Profpat]

I have a ponder going on the neutron proton relationship right now and the W bosum event gain and loss of the quark value up to down and down to up. ... the standard model of the neutron with shell center and core pictorial bothers me a bit in the thought and view. ... I will post something on it another time.

Thanks for the reply, kind regards, graham

It bothers me too. That is why I make no distinction between up and down quarks The proton has the electron outside, the neutron has the electron inside.

Best to you,

Pat

[labelwench]

Re: An Idea

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"Intuition and Logic can not replace Math__Either..."rrr


Quote:
Originally Posted by G_burnett
after thought for the day...

"Math does not replace intuition and logic."


"To develop the skill of correct thinking is in the first place to learn what you have to disregard. In order to go on, you have to know what to leave out; this is the essence of effective thinking." Kurt Godel
"Time and space are modes in which we think and not conditions in which we live." Albert Einstein
"The uncertainty principle is an absolute, finite, universal constant." L.G.
"The tick-tick-tick of the caesium atom is a sliding-time-scaler constant of all finite universal motion." L.G.

Re: An Idea

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Quote:
Originally Posted by G_burnett
after thought for the day...

"Math does not replace intuition and logic."

Originally posted by Frederick
That is a very good observation, Graham. Math is really an abstraction, and if we don't put anything in the abstraction, then there is nothing there.

LEJ Brouwer is called an intuistionistic mathematician, because he does some magical things with math that no one expected could be real: he showed that duality exists always within a limited nature.

Logic is actually a large component of math, but one cannot say that math is always logical. I think it is not impossible to create Escher-like realities within math, and before you know it, the 2D world of drawings appear like real. I call those rabbit holes.

Thank you. Good observation.

If it weren't tragic, I'd call it funny, Lloyd. We agree. In simple plain English: we agree. All these words you are using are exactly what I am talking about. I have no idea how to get you over this hill, because you are saying everything I am saying, but in your own way. The only difference is that you call my words non-scientific, while I have no clue what you are talking about when you say that. Meanwhile, you state the exact same darn thing I am saying, but then you warp my information to something I didn't say (or intended to say). Or possibly you are confusing my contributions with that provided by others?

So, fellas, do we need to call in an Engineer to bridge that Einstein Gap?

[Fredrick]

It bothers me too. That is why I make no distinction between up and down quarks The proton has the electron outside, the neutron has the electron inside.

Best to you,

Pat

So, we are coming back to having this loop almost closed, Pat. How did the electron come into being?

I provide an answer based on an overall delivery for up-quark, down-quark as well as electron; they all have their logical places during materialization, coming from a communal stressful background that is no longer intact. It is an abstraction.

Meanwhile, your electron delivery arrives from the proton, but you do not bring an awful lot to support it.

From wiki: A hydrogen atom is an atom of the chemical element hydrogen. The electrically neutral atom contains a single positively-charged proton and a single negatively-charged electron bound to the nucleus by the Coulomb force.

The proton is a subatomic particle with an electric charge of +1 elementary charge. It is found in the nucleus of each atom but is also stable by itself and has a second identity as the hydrogen ion, H+. It is composed of three fundamental particles: two up quarks and one down quark.[3]

I am somewhat puzzeld by how much proton is out there electron-free. What information do you have about the abundancy of the different proton states (with and without an electron), Pat?

[Fredrick]

So, fellas, do we need to call in an Engineer to bridge that Einstein Gap?

Good joke, Labelwench. But no, I don't think there is anything to call in. I think the confusion was all based on language and the large variety of ways how to approach the issue(s). All these frameworks — can get tough to line them all up and make all of us consider them the same way.

I think the leak is above water, with Lloyd now hopefully seeing I am making a mathematical remark, and that math is by definition a realization within the abstract. At the basic level (where I found the evidence) math is always applicable to our real world, but at a deeper level (the negative, for instance), math can be of a different kind, making it harder to distinguish between the actual and the less actual, so to speak.

[Lloyd Gillespie]

No Fredrick, you live on one side of reality, and I live on the other__I use math and logic according to fundamental rules and methods of science, which I do not find in yours. That will not change...rrr

Good joke, Labelwench. But no, I don't think there is anything to call in. I think the confusion was all based on language and the large variety of ways how to approach the issue(s). All these frameworks — can get tough to line them all up and make all of us consider them the same way.

I think the leak is above water, with Lloyd now hopefully seeing I am making a mathematical remark, and that math is by definition a realization within the abstract. At the basic level (where I found the evidence) math is always applicable to our real world, but at a deeper level (the negative, for instance), math can be of a different kind, making it harder to distinguish between the actual and less actual applications, so to speak.

[Profpat]

Hi Fredrick;

As you know I think the electron is, a space ripple or field, maybe miny vortex, created by a projection from the proton.

In our discussions of strings however I may have to revisit that to say rather than virtual point particles anywhere in space, they are strings which really make up the space. With a + side (positron) and a - side (electron), this would explain why positrons and electrons can manifest anywhere and anytime in space. Created and what appears to be annihilated, almost simultaneously.

Best,

Pat

P.S. The protons beam being + would attract and emphasize the negative side of the string, the electron side.

[austintorn@aol.com]

“Crick, are the WMAP satellite results growing more relevant because the satellite obtains more information every day?”

“Yes, because gravitational waves leave a distinctive imprint on the cosmic radiation background radiation pattern. First, gravitational waves traveling across the universe distort the distance to the plasma that emitted the cosmic background radiation. The effect is to brighten or dim the the radiation according to whether the path along which it travels is shrunk or stretched by the gravitational waves. The brightening and dimming creates hot and cold spots in the WMAP image on top of those caused by the variations in energy density.”

“Astounding, but can we separate and extract this entangled information easily?”

“Yes, by a statistical analysis of the pattern of hot and cold spots. For example, one approach is to count how the number of spots varies with size, where the size is measured by the number of degrees a spot subtends on the sky. The gravitational waves generated during inflation should produce a pattern with a nearly equal number of detectable spots of each size for sizes ranging from two degrees and upward. Variations in energy density produce a different pattern of hot spots and cold spots spanning all angles. By comparing the number of spots of various sizes, cosmologists can disentangle the gravitational wave and energy wave contributions. The simplest inflationary models predict that gravitational waves should be responsible for somewhere between 10 and 40 percent of the hot and cold spots spanning more than two degrees. I just got back from speaking with the WMAP team.”

“They talked to a cricket?” That’s strange.”

“Well, you are, too! They heard about the Pentagon virus thing and were curious to meet me so they gave me an audience.”

“Just joking.”

“They brought me up to date and will have more soon at a real big conference.”

“What did they say so far?”

“They found no gravitational signal down to the level of 35 percent, which rules out some simple inflationary models but leaves many others intact; however, soon we get to hear about their more sensitive test on the effects of gravitational waves on the polarization of the cosmic background radiation pattern.”

“Polarization.”

“Yes, I’ll have to copy some stuff verbatim, but also leave out some of the complexity of polarization for brevity.”

“At least you admit it. I’ll bet that some of it comes from a book and that it would take too long for you to retype it all.”

“How do you know these things? Is my skull transparent? Anyway, there’s not a whole lot new under the sun, so it’s all in the cross-relation of ideas much of the time, such as in this thread and in the book.”

“What about where the sun don’t shine.”

“That’s a dark matter.”

“What about where and what light really is, such as described by RLT?”

“That’s well covered in another thread, plus Austin isn’t so good at that stuff. He’s still trying to travel up, down and around a flatland globe. He had to leave bread crumbs to know where he had been.”

“OK. I’ll talk to you some more after the really big conference. It was actually held in 2006, you know.”

“Yeah, but I’m just pretending that it’s now in order to give some more drama to the story. I’m having trouble finding the percentage stuff in the 2008 report and later, especially because the 2009 one is in over a month from now. Anyway, although those will go to lower percentages and rule out even more inflationary models, WMAP is probably reaching the end of its abilities.”

“Aye, yi-yi—stay in character, Austin.”

“Well, some movie stars did that and it became permanent.”

“Oh. I guess one could become what they do and see if too many neurons connect and then further build on that by staying in character too long.”

“Chirp, chirp.”

“Hey, Crick, is that you behind the sunglasses?”

“Yes, the polarized lenses keep out the polarized rays of the sun, leaving the rest alone, for even though the light from the sun and the hot plasma of the early universe is unpolarized, when it scatters off matter some of this outgoing radiation in some directions is polarized; thus, light from the sun scattering by roughly ninety degrees from molecules in the atmosphere arrives at the eye highly polarized, although not perfectly so.”

“So, the lenses block the predominant polarization but let through a small amount of light with the opposite polarization?”

“Yes, plus I am a movie star and so I don’t really need to be recognized.”

“What movie!”

“The ‘Genetic Code’ movie, in which we find that DNA holds some juicy secrets about our past, many of them not presently active and presumed as junk DNA, but are actually just turned off and still quite readable.”

[Profpat]

[Profpat]

All physicists know that light carries both linear and angular momentum. What is perhaps less well known, however, is that its angular momentum can be broken down into spin and orbital components. Spin angular momentum is associated with polarization, whereas orbital angular momentum arises from a more complex combination of the phase and amplitude profiles of an optical field. Although the spin momentum is the predominant property used in optical-based quantum information applications, orbital momentum is potentially more powerful for encoding and processing such information in high-dimensional quantum spaces. In this issue, Gabriel Molina-Terriza and colleagues review progress in the generation, understanding and use of the orbital angular momentum of light.