[Profpat]

Hi Rybot;

I apologize for the delay in responding to your post but I have been on vacation the past 2 weeks and just now have returned home.

Thank you for your post and WELCOME to Toequest. I hope you enjoy this site as much as I have.

Regarding your post:

You are right I do believe 3 is a fundamental ( Trinity ).

I break things down to 3 major catagories;
MIND: Metaphysical/mental.
BODY: Physical.
SPIRIT; Emotional/spiritual.

As far as the 3 dimensional particle, if you buy 3 pipe cleaners and superpose and interweave them as per my diagram you'll see how the enfold to a 3 dimensional sphere with the 8 internal dimensions inside ( The Octants )

I would be most interested in your geometry.

Best to you,

Pat

[Profpat]

Hi Dipayankar;

I found this regarding light but nothing yet on it being a dimensionless point particle. In fact if it were, it wouldn't really be anything, similar to the electrons being viewed as VIRTUAL point particles, or the " big bang " coming out of a dimensionless point particle. ( Nothing ).

Actually, photons are not particles in the physical sense that we normally associate with that word. Rather, they consist of discrete bundles of energy which are fixed in magnitude. As a result, each photon takes on some of the characteristics of a physical particle.
Viewed in this context, light still does not change its basic behavior. These apparent particles are electrically neutral, so they tend to travel in straight lines, without being affected by either magnetic fields or electrical fields.
If photons were actual physical particles, we would have trouble using them to explain some of the observed behaviors of light. For example, when light passes from a vacuum to a denser medium, such as Earth's atmosphere, it slows down in accordance with the density of the medium. This much, at least, makes intuitive sense. However, light then maintains a constant speed through the new medium — it does not continue to slow down as it continues to move. This does not seem to make much sense for physical particles, which should be subject to friction effects in a non-vacuum. Furthermore, when the light leaves the denser medium for a less dense one, it speeds up again. Definitely not the behavior one would expect from any kind of particle.

If you find something refering to light being a dimensionless point particle please let me know.

Best to you,

Pat

[Profpat]

Hi Dipayankar;

I found this information regarding the photon in Wikipedia:

Rather, the photon seems like a point-like particle, since it is absorbed or emitted as a whole by arbitrarily small systems, systems much smaller than its wavelength, such as an atomic nucleus (≈10–15 m across) or even the point-like electron. Nevertheless, the photon is not a point-like particle whose trajectory is shaped probabilistically by the electromagnetic field, as conceived by Einstein and others; that hypothesis was also refuted by the photon-correlation experiments cited above.[32] According to our present understanding, the electromagnetic field itself is produced by photons, which in turn result from a local gauge symmetry and the laws of quantum field theory (see the Second quantization and Gauge boson sections below).

So unless you can give me more information that a photon can be viewed as a dimensionless point particle, I'm going to stay with my Idea that a 1 dimensional planck lenghth string is the most fundamental of " REAL " entities.

If you or any of our members have information to the contrary, please let me know.

Best to all,

Pat

[dipayankar]

For producing an electromagnetic field, would you require photon to have mass??

Originally Posted by Profpat Hi Dipayankar; I found this information regarding the photon in Wikipedia: Rather, the photon seems like a point-like particle, since it is absorbed or emitted as a whole by arbitrarily small systems, systems much smaller than its wavelength, such as an atomic nucleus (≈10–15 m across) or even the point-like electron. Nevertheless, the photon is not a point-like particle whose trajectory is shaped probabilistically by the electromagnetic field, as conceived by Einstein and others; that hypothesis was also refuted by the photon-correlation experiments cited above.[32] According to our present understanding, the electromagnetic field itself is produced by photons, which in turn result from a local gauge symmetry and the laws of quantum field theory (see the Second quantization and Gauge boson sections below). So unless you can give me more information that a photon can be viewed as a dimensionless point particle, I'm going to stay with my Idea that a 1 dimensional planck lenghth string is the most fundamental of " REAL " entities. If you or any of our members have information to the contrary, please let me know. Best to all, Pat

[rybot]

Originally Posted by Profpat Hi Rybot; I apologize for the delay in responding to your post but I have been on vacation the past 2 weeks and just now have returned home. Thank you for your post and WELCOME to Toequest. I hope you enjoy this site as much as I have. You are right I do believe 3 is a fundamental ( Trinity ).

Pat, I had replied to this post several days ago but now I'm looking and don't see it posted. I think it reasons like this that I stopped using this internet some many months ago.

I will try responding again. Argh!!

Originally Posted by Profpat I break things down to 3 major catagories; MIND: Metaphysical/mental.

I think we agree on metaphysical being energyless, abstract concepts.

Originally Posted by Profpat BODY: Physical.

I see "body" being equal to *biological* and that being equal to *soul* --i.e. completely interchangebvale-- and pertains to feeling/emotions as induced by and including, chemical interactions, hormones any electromagnetic fields etc........

Originally Posted by Profpat SPIRIT; Emotional/spiritual.

"Spirit" has as many, if not more definitions in dictionary than any other word I'm familiar with, except maybe "soul" . I envision "spirit" as having both and energyless metaphysical aspect as "intention" --e.g an intention of goodwill or badwill which is more complicated than quick and simplistic black-white example-- and,

a energetic physical aspect e.g. alcohol is a "spirit" and a young colt kicking its heels high is said to have a lot of energy( very energetic ).

Originally Posted by Profpat As far as the 3 dimensional particle, if you buy 3 pipe cleaners and superpose and interweave them as per my diagram you'll see how the enfold to a 3 dimensional sphere with the 8 internal dimensions inside ( The Octants )

Pat, I see your 2D version which has 7 polygonal shapes.

I see your 3D( pipe cleaner ) version(s). The open version may be spherical but it is not like a more true sphere. This is because your 3 circles only partially overlap their areas. Know what I mean?

If you were to have a more true spherical the 3 circles would share in common, their exact centers of area and would be called Great Circles i.e. they are equatorial great circles of a sphere --e.g Earth--.

There is a Platonic polyhedron( octahedron ) that is spefically defined by 3 Great Circles at 90 degree orientation to each other.

I'm not sure if the angular orientation of your, only paritally overlapping circles, is critical point or not.

The angle of overlap in 3D will affect the creation of any internal shapes.

Know what I mean?

Originally Posted by Profpat [size=2]I would be most interested in your geometry. Best to you,

Yes I do want to share some of my similar geometric ideas. The octahedron is one of them. However, first I was hoping to get some common understanding of how we envision

1) energyless metaphysical --beyond the physical i.e. true nothingness spalialty beyond our finite physical universe and as abstract concepts, cosmic laws etc...

2) energy/energetic as physical e.g fermions and bosons and any accumulative aggregates thereof.

Ok, hope this one gets posted.

Rybo


physical

[Drifter]

For whats it's worth:

Matter is the vehicle for the soul on this plane of existence, and the soul, on a higher plane of existence, is the vehicle for the manifestation of the spirit.
These three are a trinity synthesized by life which pervades them all.

The soul has a dual nature. When it is assosciated with matter [ensouled and mortal] it is mired in its descent into its lower nature or aspect and knows life and death, when it is beholding of the spirit in its ascention it is one with the beloved and knows immortality no death, that what has never known birth can never know death. Lofty? Unbound? Free? Your guess is as good as mine.

Is this enlightenment for the mind/body "personal/individual biological unit' or the awakening of the soul to its higher nature, "essential nature/collective wholeness unifying principle within all humanity?

Lover and Beloved become One, the consumation of mortal life inculcating immortal Life.
[or visa versa, depending upon your point of postulation, i.e. the Christ state]

Daemon and eidolon:



"This “other being” is the other person in ourselves – that larger and greater personality maturing within us, whom we have already met as the inner friend of the soul. That is why we take comfort whenever we find the friend and companion depicted in a ritual, an example being the friendship between Mithras and the sun-god. This relationship is a mystery to the scientific intellect, because the intellect is accustomed to regard these things unsympathetically. But if it made allowance for feeling, we would discover that it is the friend whom the sun-god takes with him on his chariot, as shown in the monuments. It is the representation of a friendship between two men which is simply the outer reflection of an inner fact: it reveals our relationship to that inner friend of the soul into whom Nature herself would like to change us – that other person who we also are and yet can never attain to completely. We are that pair of Dioscuri, one of whom is mortal and the other immortal, and who, though always together, can never be made completely one. The transformation processes strive to approximate them to one another, but our consciousness is aware of resistances, because the other person seems strange and uncanny, and because we cannot get accustomed to the idea that we are not absolute master in our own house. We should prefer to be always “I” and nothing else. But we are confronted with that inner friend or foe, and whether he is our friend or foe depends on ourselves.

You need not be insane to hear his voice. On the contrary, it is the simplest and most natural thing imaginable. For instance, you can ask yourself a question to which “he” gives answer. The discussion is then carried on as in any other conversation. You can describe it as mere “associating” or “talking to oneself”, or as a “meditation” in the sense used by the old alchemists, who referred to their interlocutor as aliquem alium internum, “a certain other one, within” This form of colloquy with the friend of the soul was even admitted by Ignatius Loyola into the technique of his Exercitia spiritualia, but with the limiting condition that only the person meditating is allowed to speak, whereas the inner responses are passed over as being merely human and therefore to be repudiated. … But a real colloquy becomes possible only when the ego acknowledges the existence of a partner to the discussion…. (p. 132)
[It is about transformation] “It is my own transformation – not a personal transformation, but the transformation of what is mortal in me into what is immortal. It shakes off the mortal husk that I am and wakens to a life of its own; it mounts the sun-barge and may take me with it”. (~ C.G. Jung, “Concerning Rebirth”, The Archetypes and the Collective Unconscious, C.W. volume 9i. Page 134)

Interesting is it not.
http://cheatingtheferryman.blogspot.com/2007/12/daemon-eidolon-dyad-according-to-c-j.html




I see "body" being equal to *biological* and that being equal to *soul* --i.e. completely interchangebvale-- and pertains to feeling/emotions as induced by and including, chemical interactions, hormones any electromagnetic fields etc........



"Spirit" has as many, if not more definitions in dictionary than any other word I'm familiar with, except maybe "soul" . I envision "spirit" as having both and energyless metaphysical aspect as "intention" --e.g an intention of goodwill or badwill which is more complicated than quick and simplistic black-white example-- and,

a energetic physical aspect e.g. alcohol is a "spirit" and a young colt kicking its heels high is said to have a lot of energy( very energetic ).

[Profpat]

Hi Dipayankar;

I'm going have to turn this over to a higher power.

Neutralino, if you are out there in cyber space could you help Dip and I out?

Can a photon be a dimensionless point particle?

Best,

Pat

[rybot]

Originally Posted by Drifter Matter is the vehicle for the soul on this plane of existence, and the soul, on a higher plane of existence, is the vehicle for the manifestation of the spirit. These three are a trinity synthesized by life which pervades them all.

Hey Drifter, I'm not sure where, or if, the "soul" fits into Pats "idea".

Either way Drifter, where I differ with your assessment, and the specifics of your comment above, is that I equate "soul" with a biological and a biological is much more complex than any known aggregate of "matter" having no known access to all the metaphysical complexities associated with the most complex biologicals( humans ) and to some degree all less complex biologicals

Originally Posted by Drifter The soul has a dual nature. When it is assosciated with matter [ensouled and mortal] it is mired in its descent into its lower nature or aspect and knows life and death, when it is beholding of the spirit in its ascention it is one with the beloved and knows immortality no death, that what has never known birth can never know death. Lofty? Unbound? Free? Your guess is as good as mine.

Drifter, I agree that "soul" has dual aspects/nature, in that, similar to "spirit" and all words and/or assigned 'things' there is always the eternal dualistic and complementary metaphysical( energeyless ) and physical( energetic )

Originally Posted by Drifter Is this enlightenment for the mind/body "personal/individual biological unit' or the awakening of the soul to its higher nature, "essential nature/collective wholeness unifying principle within all humanity?

Drifter, I believe "higher nature" and "enlightenment" are states of consciousness, that we can for time, however brief that may be, time and time again in a lifetime of human.

It is metaphysical spirit, that searches out such states of consciousness, and labels that search and the resultant actions thereof, as 'spirituality'.


The most generalized and complex triune/trinuty is that of:

1) metaphysical beyond and its subcatagories

2) spirit and soul combination as a biological, and at its most complex, as human complex and its most complex --barring the whole "U"niverse complex-- interaction between the metaphysical and physical

3) physical matter as fermions and bosons and any accumulating aggregates thereof.

Rybo

[dipayankar]

And is there a way that the same photon can be converted into 3D without addition of mass??

Originally Posted by Profpat Hi Dipayankar; I'm going have to turn this over to a higher power. Neutralino, if you are out there in cyber space could you help Dip and I out? Can a photon be a dimensionless point particle? Best, Pat

[Drifter]

I'll reply within you post, I hope you don't mind

Originally Posted by rybot Originally Posted by Drifter Matter is the vehicle for the soul on this plane of existence, and the soul, on a higher plane of existence, is the vehicle for the manifestation of the spirit. These three are a trinity synthesized by life which pervades them all. Hey Drifter, I'm not sure where, or if, the "soul" fits into Pats "idea".

I was addressing the post not the thread.
[my apology if due Profpat]

Originally Posted by rybot Either way Drifter, where I differ with your assessment, and the specifics of your comment above, is that I equate "soul" with a biological and a biological is much more complex than any known aggregate of "matter" having no known access to all the metaphysical complexities associated with the most complex biologicals( humans ) and to some degree all less complex biologicals

'You' are observing from the perspective of your lower nature as a biological entity only. You are much more than that, did ye but know it.

Keep it simple, the soul has a dual nature.

Originally Posted by rybot Originally Posted by Drifter The soul has a dual nature. When it is assosciated with matter [ensouled and mortal] it is mired in its descent into its lower nature or aspect and knows life and death, when it is beholding of the spirit in its ascention it is one with the beloved and knows immortality no death, that what has never known birth can never know death. Lofty? Unbound? Free? Your guess is as good as mine. Drifter, I agree that "soul" has dual aspects/nature, in that, similar to "spirit" and all words and/or assigned 'things' there is always the eternal dualistic and complementary metaphysical( energeyless ) and physical( energetic )

Man is energised by the soul, it is the creative spark that animates the mind/body organism, at death it withdraws from matter.

Originally Posted by rybot Originally Posted by Drifter Is this enlightenment for the mind/body "personal/individual biological unit' or the awakening of the soul to its higher nature, "essential nature/collective wholeness unifying principle within all humanity? Drifter, I believe "higher nature" and "enlightenment" are states of consciousness, that we can for time, however brief that may be, time and time again in a lifetime of human.

So is our lower nature a state of 'relative' consciousness, relative to what, relative to the 'things' in that field. [the concept of 'original sin' was the initial 'idea of seperation', from the whole, that we are not born with as infants but 'acquire', culturally and conditionally.]

Originally Posted by rybot It is metaphysical spirit, that searches out such states of consciousness, and labels that search and the resultant actions thereof, as 'spirituality'.

The etheric[noumenon] side of the ephemeral[phenomenon] duality, seeks its source. aka "spirituality'. [Google "Etheric Double"]

Originally Posted by rybot The most generalized and complex triune/trinuty is that of: 1) metaphysical beyond and its subcatagories 2) spirit and soul combination as a biological, and at its most complex, as human complex and its most complex --barring the whole "U"niverse complex-- interaction between the metaphysical and physical 3) physical matter as fermions and bosons and any accumulating aggregates thereof.

LIGHT and shadow. DAEMON and eidolon.

Soul [ego/formless/mind] and body [form] body, mind, soul.
Gross, subtle, and causal.

Physical, emotional, mental, states realms, kingdoms, planes of being.

Originally Posted by rybot Rybo

It is refreshing to come into contact with another studious mind.