[Drifter]

It is advisable that each who begin the path of thought upon the trinity arrive at an understanding of their etheric body, and this for certain reasons.
First, the etheric body is the next aspect of the world substance to be studied by scientists and investigators. This time will be hastened if thinking men and women can formulate intelligent ideas about this interesting subject. We can aid in the revelation of the truth by our clear thinking and from the standpoint of the present pronouncements about the ether, scientists will eventually arrive at an understanding of etheric forms or bodies.

Secondly, the etheric body is composed of force currents, and in it are vital centers linked by lines of force with each other and with the nervous system of the physical man. Through these lines of force, it is connected also with the etheric body of the environing system. Note that in this lies the basis for a belief in immortality, for the law of brotherhood or unity and for astrological truth.

Thirdly, the need of realizing that the etheric body is vitalized and controlled by thought and can [through thought] be brought into full functioning activity. This is done by right thinking and not be breathing exercises and holding the nose. When this is grasped, much dangerous practice will be avoided and people will come into a normal and safe control of that most potent instrument, the vital body. That this end may rapidly be consummated is my earnest wish.

Namaste`

When a man feels he needs to take into account his evolutionary standpoint, the result of this response is a reorientation of the lower man in order to produce a synthesis of the Three and the One so that the work of the Four may proceed. Here you have a reflection consummated in the microcosm of that which the Solar Logos started, the "Sacred Four" of the Cosmos; man in his turn becomes a "Sacred Four" - spirit and the three of manifestation.

Originally Posted by Pat I'm going to expand on my thoughts regarding trinity. To me it's essential to have a complete ONE. Whether that is Father, Son, and Holy Ghost; or Mental, Physical, and Emotional, to make up the dynamics of ONE PERSON. The universe needs TIME, SPACE and MOTION to make up it's existence. The three primary colors of light, RED, GREEN and BLUE are necessary to make up our spectrum. Three Quarks are required to construct the Proton/Neutron. ME, MYSELF and I make up Pat. ( ME, mass/energy, the radiating body ) ( I, the I AM the mind ) ( SELF the spirit which resides in the person ) Now if trinity is needed physically ( Time,space, motion ) ( 3 quarks ) ( 3 primary colors ) I would think this trinity permeates all things. Just my thoughts on the subject. Best to all, Pat

[rybot]

Originally Posted by Profpat Hi Rybo; Thank you for your post. You are right and I stand corrected, it would not be a spherical shape. Rather it would be a geodesic dome and geodesic sphere shape. Thank you for your insight. I do believe they would be at 90 degrees of each other due to the equality of the complementary opposites of the domains.

Pat, I think you misunderstand my comments. Geodesic domes are, for the most part, very much spherical.

Your three partially overlapping circles whether in 2D( quarks ) or 3D( proton ), do not define a spherical or at least not anything close to being likened to spherical.

The "closed neutron" is much closer to being likened to a spherical.

Originally Posted by Pat I don't believe it would be Plato's octahedron, in that I believe those are linear lines and not curved. Otherwise it would be the same. I would be very interested in further information of the 3 Great Circles you mentioned.

http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/s08/figs/f3511.html

This is a Platonic polyhedron, only it is the spherical version. These are equalateral curved triangles.

These three XYZ oriented are the same as the regular octahedron.

Originally Posted by Pat Again thank you, Pat

Your welcome and hope that you are still willing to disscuss, answer questions in regards to the "idea" and consider my ToE ideas and a couple of other web sites that have models similar to yours but still differrent.

Here is one such site, and I hope you will look at it. It is sort of hybrid cross between your "idea"and my ideas.

Rybo

[rybot]

Originally Posted by Drifter I'll reply within you post, I hope you don't mind It is refreshing to come into contact with another studious mind.

Hey Drifter, thats good to hear.

I clicked "quote" but most of your and my text is missing.

I'm still having trouble understanding how to intersperse my text with the others text. Thats paritally why I've gone to using color text early on. This ToE of fomat has some good stuff but it has fair amount of negative stuff, to enable effiencient and effective communication.

Anyway I copied your reply and will try posting it here as follows:

RY) "Hey Drifter, I'm not sure where, or if, the "soul" fits into Pats "idea"."


I was addressing the post not the thread.
[my apology if due Profpat]

Ok

Either way Drifter, where I differ with your assessment, and the specifics of your comment above, is that I equate "soul" with a biological and a biological is much more complex than any known aggregate of "matter" having no known access to all the metaphysical complexities associated with the most complex biologicals( humans ) and to some degree all less complex biologicals

DRI) You' are observing from the perspective of your lower nature as a biological entity only. You are much more than that, did ye but know it.

Or so you believe, and believe that "ye" know. It appears to me that your higher soul is likened to physicist whose Standard Model call for a Higgs boson field and particle that gives all mass to all matter, yet there is as of yet, no evidence of such a Higgs( God particle ) boson.


DRI0 Keep it simple, the soul has a dual nature.

I believe I have responded to that once before. That dualit is metaphysical and physcial as it is with all words, 'things' etc...


DRI) The soul has a dual nature. When it is assosciated with matter [ensouled and mortal] it is mired in its descent into its lower nature or aspect and knows life and death, when it is beholding of the spirit in its ascention it is one with the beloved and knows immortality no death, that what has never known birth can never know death. Lofty? Unbound? Free? Your guess is as good as mine.

Again your scenario reminds me of the above mentioned Higgs Ocean/Field. If you are familiar with it then you *may* see the similarity between the two scenarios.


""Drifter, I agree that "soul" has dual aspects/nature, in that, similar to "spirit" and all words and/or assigned 'things' there is always the eternal dualistic and complementary metaphysical( energeyless ) and physical( energetic )""

DI) Man is energised by the soul, it is the creative spark that animates the mind/body organism, at death it withdraws from matter.

Here again your scenario is very much likened to Higgs. No evidence of either.

""Drifter, I believe "higher nature" and "enlightenment" are states of consciousness, that we can for time, however brief that may be, time and time again in a lifetime of human.""


DRI) So is our lower nature a state of 'relative' consciousness, relative to what, relative to the 'things' in that field. [the concept of 'original sin' was the initial 'idea of seperation', from the whole, that we are not born with as infants but 'acquire', culturally and conditionally.]

Yes drifter, consciousness is based on the experiential ergo relativity, yet we biological/soul has access to metaphysicla mind. This again is the trinity/triune.

""It is metaphysical spirit, that searches out such states of consciousness, and labels that search and the resultant actions thereof, as 'spirituality'.""


DRI) The etheric[noumenon] side of the ephemeral[phenomenon] duality, seeks its source. aka "spirituality'. [Google "Etheric Double"]

Beyond my comprehensive abilities. Sorry.

""The most generalized and complex triune/trinuty is that of:
1) metaphysical beyond and its subcatagories
2) spirit and soul combination as a biological, and at its most complex, as human complex and its most complex --barring the whole "U"niverse complex-- interaction between the metaphysical and physical
3) physical matter as fermions and bosons and any accumulating aggregates thereof.""

DRI) Soul [ego/formless/mind] and body [form] body, mind, soul.
Gross, subtle, and causal.
Physical, emotional, mental, states realms, kingdoms, planes of being.

Soul = biological( emotions, chemicals, hormones, feelings, EMRadiation, consciousness and most complex occurrs with nervous system.

There is no mystery left to be understood iin this way Drifter. This is very simple/plain. Your higher soul idea are yet to be clearly indentified and/or observed.

Rybo

[rybot]

Originally Posted by Profpat I'm going to expand on my thoughts regarding trinity. To me it's essential to have a complete ONE. Whether that is Father, Son, and Holy Ghost; or Mental, Physical, and Emotional, to make up the dynamics of ONE PERSON.

That is why the "U" in some Universe labels is capitalized i.e it is all inclusive of both metaphysical and physical.

Originally Posted by Profpat The universe needs TIME, SPACE and MOTION to make up it's existence.

I see physical time as equal to motion.

Originally Posted by Profpat The three primary colors of light, RED, GREEN and BLUE are necessary to make up our spectrum.

True, however, the painter/artist types replace one of those with yellow, to arrive their three primary colors.

Originally Posted by Profpat Three Quarks are required to construct the Proton/Neutron.

However, there are other geometries that also incorporate this threeness that may be the 3 quarks of baryons( proton,neutrons etc..)

I hope to share my three quarks geometrical version with you later on.

Originally Posted by Profpat ME, MYSELF and I make up Pat. ( ME, mass/energy, the radiating body ) ( I, the I AM the mind ) ( SELF the spirit which resides in the person )

I would refer you to my trinity/triune as expressed to Drifter.

Originally Posted by Profpat Now if trinity is needed physically ( Time,space, motion ) ( 3 quarks ) ( 3 primary colors ) I would think this trinity permeates all things.

I think so to, however, I think is a little more complicated than your version.

Originally Posted by Profpat Just my thoughts on the subject.

Thanks for clarifying Pat. I'm still wondering what internal polyhedral shapes are defined by your 3D partially overlapping circles?

Rybo

[rybot]

I believe the photon and light wave are one and the same. The 2 dimensional transverse wave is bundle by what appears to be particles again because they have L,W, and H.

Pat. I agree with your assessment, tho proably not for the same reasons you do. I dunno, as I'm not sure of why you feel that way.

Rybo

[neutralino]

Originally Posted by rybot I clicked "quote" but most of your and my text is missing. I'm still having trouble understanding how to intersperse my text with the others text. Thats paritally why I've gone to using color text early on. This ToE of fomat has some good stuff but it has fair amount of negative stuff, to enable effiencient and effective communication.

When you hit "quote" only the text in the post you are quoting is quoted into the text box. Text that is already in a quotation in the post you are quoting will not appear in the text box. Thus, if you wish to reply inside quote you will need to put the tags in yourself.

For example, if I wanted to respond to the following post

I have a few questions. 1. What time is it? 2. What day is it?

then I would hit the appropriate "quote" button, which would make the text go into the text box in quotations. Then if I wanted to intersperse answers and questions, I would type [ /quote] before where I was answering, type my answer and then type [quote]to re-open the quote box. Continue as required. It would look like this:

I have a few questions.

Ok

1. What time is it?

3am

2. What day is it?

Saturday.

Now, click "quote" on my post to see the code to write this. It's pretty straight-forward once you get the hang of it. I'll go back and edit your previous posts (I've done a couple) so they are easier to follow. I'll delete this message when rybo's read it so as not to disturb the flow of the thread (, Pat.)

Hope this helps, rybo. If you're still having problems, post in the feedback forum and I'll try and give a clearer explanation.

[neutralino]

Originally Posted by Profpat It's been nice discussing this with you but I do wish Neutralino or somebody else who knows the ANSWER, not their own speculation would check in on this one.

Hi Pat et al.

Sorry I haven't replied earlier, but I've only just noticed your questions. That said, I'm not sure that my answer will be all that useful; I'll give it a go though.

The current particle physics model does not define the size of the photon. Now note that this does not mean that we do not know what the numerical value for the size of the photon; it means that we do not have a definition for what the "size" of the photon would relate to. Remember that we're using quantum physics here, and so things aren't as straightforward as in the classical analogue-- the photon isn't really a nice spherical object. I would, however, hazard a guess that a photon is not a point particle: infact it's a quantum field theory particle and so, I think, should have some sort of internal structure. However, the photon is so small that it suffices, for anything that we want to do, to regard the photon as a point particle.

A similar argument could be made for the electron. In everyday calculations we regard the electron as a point particle. This is because its volume is incredibly small when viewed from the macroscopic scale. However, when viewed from distances on the microscopic scale, electrons have a finite size. Now, I'm not saying that an electron and a photon are identical, but they are both taken to be point particles. Another analogy could be in classical physics when we are dealing with any objects, we assume they are point particles with all their mass concentrated at their centre of mass. This is another simplification that works for calculations we want to do.

I guess the short answer to your question would be "I don't know" but I hope my waffling has helped slightly!

Also, if in future there is a question you want me to look at, then feel free to PM me asking me to look at the relevant thread. I try and answer most things, especially when asked directly, but in this instance I simply overlooked the thread!

Regards,

[neutralino]

Ok, the last few pages of posts should have the quotes in the right place now. I hope I've not made any mistakes and quoted people saying the wrong things!

[Drifter]

Noumenon and phenomenon? This and That? This is within That? anyway?

First the world of spirit or the formless abstract world of subjective consciousness is not recognised in a scientific sense. It is recognised innately by those of mystic temperament, and by those who are able to study the subjective history of men and races [i.e. Joesph Campbell], but science recognises not this aspect of manifestation, nor do scientific men, as a whole, believe in the world of super-physical endeavor. All that in the earlier races held paramount place in the lives and thoughts of the people is now approached skeptically, and discussions are preceeded with a question mark. But progress has been made and much has arisen out of the war. The question, for instance, is rapidly changing from the formula "is there life ater death?" to the enquiry "Of what nature is the future life?" and this is a portent of much encouragement.

I don't need science's holy word to know what I have first hand expereinced, pertaining to the soul and/or astral body. Science simply hasn't progressed far enough along in that endeavor and when it does, decide to put in the effort, and finally verifies it for you last hold-outs and those whom you influence [with this obstinance] , it will have egg on its face and so will you.

Originally Posted by rybot DRI) You' are observing from the perspective of your lower nature as a biological entity only. You are much more than that, did ye but know it. Or so you believe, and believe that "ye" know. It appears to me that your higher soul is likened to physicist whose Standard Model call for a Higgs boson field and particle that gives all mass to all matter, yet there is as of yet, no evidence of such a Higgs( God particle ) boson. DRI0 Keep it simple, the soul has a dual nature. I believe I have responded to that once before. That dualit is metaphysical and physcial as it is with all words, 'things' etc... DRI) The soul has a dual nature. When it is assosciated with matter [ensouled and mortal] it is mired in its descent into its lower nature or aspect and knows life and death, when it is beholding of the spirit in its ascention it is one with the beloved and knows immortality no death, that what has never known birth can never know death. Lofty? Unbound? Free? Your guess is as good as mine. Again your scenario reminds me of the above mentioned Higgs Ocean/Field. If you are familiar with it then you *may* see the similarity between the two scenarios. ""Drifter, I agree that "soul" has dual aspects/nature, in that, similar to "spirit" and all words and/or assigned 'things' there is always the eternal dualistic and complementary metaphysical( energeyless ) and physical( energetic )"" DI) Man is energised by the soul, it is the creative spark that animates the mind/body organism, at death it withdraws from matter. Here again your scenario is very much likened to Higgs. No evidence of either. ""Drifter, I believe "higher nature" and "enlightenment" are states of consciousness, that we can for time, however brief that may be, time and time again in a lifetime of human."" DRI) So is our lower nature a state of 'relative' consciousness, relative to what, relative to the 'things' in that field. [the concept of 'original sin' was the initial 'idea of seperation', from the whole, that we are not born with as infants but 'acquire', culturally and conditionally.] Yes drifter, consciousness is based on the experiential ergo relativity, yet we biological/soul has access to metaphysicla mind. This again is the trinity/triune. ""It is metaphysical spirit, that searches out such states of consciousness, and labels that search and the resultant actions thereof, as 'spirituality'."" DRI) The etheric[noumenon] side of the ephemeral[phenomenon] duality, seeks its source. aka "spirituality'. [Google "Etheric Double"] Beyond my comprehensive abilities. Sorry. ""The most generalized and complex triune/trinuty is that of: 1) metaphysical beyond and its subcatagories 2) spirit and soul combination as a biological, and at its most complex, as human complex and its most complex --barring the whole "U"niverse complex-- interaction between the metaphysical and physical 3) physical matter as fermions and bosons and any accumulating aggregates thereof."" DRI) Soul [ego/formless/mind] and body [form] body, mind, soul. Gross, subtle, and causal. Physical, emotional, mental, states realms, kingdoms, planes of being. Soul = biological( emotions, chemicals, hormones, feelings, EMRadiation, consciousness and most complex occurrs with nervous system. There is no mystery left to be understood iin this way Drifter. This is very simple/plain. Your higher soul idea are yet to be clearly indentified and/or observed. Rybo

[Drifter]

Secondly, the masses of the peoples are suffering from suppression and from the effects of inhibition. Science has said, There is no God and no spirit within man. Religion has said, There must be a God, but where may He be found? The masses say We desire not a God constructed by the brains of theologians. Therefore the true inner comprehension finds no room for expansion, and the activity that should be finding its legitimate expression in the higher aspiration, turns itself to the deification of things, - things pertaining to the flesh, connected with the emotions, or having a relation to the mind. The war, again, has accomplished much by regulating things to their just position, and, by the removal of possessions, many have learnt the value of essentials, and the necessity of eliminating that which is superfluous.