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Re: An Idea - pipe cleaners
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Re: An Idea - pipe cleaners - 01-31-2008, 04:34 AM

Its pretty simple. Just copy from word and paste it here. This forum works on the Microsoft model of copy and paste. Try it should not be difficult

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix Schrodinger View Post
Hi Prof

I've recently joined and have only just read your idea(s). A lot of interesting stuff in there but I want to comment specifically on your pipe cleaner model - presumably you're one of the old school who expected all research physicists to smoke a pipe whilst explaining relativity?

Whilst your interwoven strings (the pipe cleaners) would explain the charges on the proton and neutron they would not explain the strong force. If we combine your concept with something resembling a Higgs Boson then a better possibility emerges.

Lets say the HB is (for this illustration) in the form of a ring which holds three strings pushed through it. One end of each string is positive and the other is negatively charged. The proton consists of the three strings pulled partially out to expose themselves as: +2/3 +2/3 -1/3 = 1 and the neutron consists of the other ends of the same strings: +1/3 +1/3 -2/3 = 0. The strong force is just the strength of the strings themselves as they would have to be broken in order to split the proton from the neutron.

It's taken me some time to respond as I wanted to use a diagram showing this but it's in M/S Office and I can't see how to cut and paste from Word.
  
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Re: An Idea
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Re: An Idea - 01-31-2008, 04:55 PM

Hi Felix;

Welcome to the forum and thanks for your interest in my Idea.

Part of my Idea is that the strong nuclear and weak nuclear are part of the electro magnetic force. The binding action is the positive and negative domains in the 7 domained area of the proton or 8 domained area of the neutron. This binding or stacking has a limit and when reached would break down emitting alpha particles.

I would like to see your description it sounds interesting.

Best to you,

Pat
  
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Re: An Idea
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Re: An Idea - 01-31-2008, 05:02 PM

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Originally Posted by dipayankar View Post
So as of now it is not conclusive. What characteristics would make people think that they have mass??
Hi Dipayankar;

This might help answer your question.

Historic Dispute : Do neutrinos have mass?



Viewpoint: Yes, the Japanese-U.S. research team called the Super-Kamiokande Collaboration announced experiment results in 1998 that proved that neutrinos do indeed have mass.
Viewpoint: No, the experiments of earlier twentieth-century scientists repeatedly indicated that neutrinos did not have mass.
In 1931 Wolfgang Pauli first predicted the existence of a subatomic particle that Enrico Fermi would later name the neutrino. The neutrino must exist, Pauli reasoned, because otherwise the atomic process known as beta decay would violate the physical laws of conservation of energy and conservation of angular momentum. Neutrinos had never been detected, so Pauli concluded that they didn't interact with most other particles or forces. This implied they were extremely small particles with no charge or mass.
The only force that noticeably affects neutrinos is the "weak" force, a subatomic force that is not as strong as the force that holds the atomic nucleus together, but that likewise operates only at very short range. Because of their extremely limited interactions with other particles and forces, neutrinos can travel huge distances unimpeded by anything in their path. Neutrinos arising from the nuclear reactions in the Sun stream through Earth and all its inhabitants without having any effect whatsoever. For this reason they are extremely difficult to detect, and their existence was not confirmed until a quarter century after Pauli's prediction.
Today's neutrino detectors, kept deep underground to avoid stray particles on Earth's surface, may contain thousands of tons of fluid. While trillions of neutrinos pass through the fluid every day, only a few dozen are likely to be detected.
Scientists have discovered that there are three types of neutrinos, each associated with a different charged particle for which it is named. Thus they are called the electron neutrino, muon neutrino, and tau neutrino. The first type of neutrino to be discovered was the electron neutrino, in 1959. The muon neutrino was discovered in 1962. The tau neutrino has yet to be directly observed. It was inferred from the existence of the tau particle itself, which was discovered in 1978. The tau particle is involved in decay reactions with the same imbalance that Pauli solved for beta decay by postulating the electron neutrino.
One ongoing issue in neutrino research is called the "solar neutrino problem." This refers to the detection of fewer electron neutrinos than expected, given the known energy output of the Sun. One possible explanation for this phenomenon could be "oscillation" between the different neutrino types. That is, electron neutrinos could change into muon or tau neutrinos, which are even more difficult to detect. Similarly, scientists have observed a deficit in the number of muon neutrinos they would expect to see coming from cosmic rays.
Neutrino oscillations, if they exist, are a quantum mechanical phenomenon dependent on the difference in the masses of the two types of particles. That means that if researchers could prove that neutrino oscillation occurs, at least one of the neutrino types involved must have a non-zero mass. In 1998 a Japanese-U.S. research team called the Super-Kamiokande Collaboration announced that they had discovered evidence of oscillation between muon neutrinos and either the tau neutrino or a new, unknown type.

Best to you,

Pat
  
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Re: An Idea
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Re: An Idea - 01-31-2008, 05:07 PM

I don't know whether you've seen this or not, Pat, but I wrote a little about future experiments for detecting neutrinos which may be of interest in relation to your last post.


~neutralino

If you haven't found something strange during the day, it hasn't been much of a day - John A. Wheeler.
  
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Re: An Idea
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Re: An Idea - 01-31-2008, 06:21 PM

Thanks for the link Neutralino;

To answer Dipayankars original question it doesn't appear they would interact with quarks.

Best to all,

Pat
  
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Re: An Idea
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Re: An Idea - 02-01-2008, 03:16 AM

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Originally Posted by Profpat View Post

Part of my Idea is that the strong nuclear and weak nuclear are part of the electro magnetic force. The binding action is the positive and negative domains in the 7 domained area of the proton or 8 domained area of the neutron. This binding or stacking has a limit and when reached would break down emitting alpha particles. I would like to see your description it sounds interesting.
Hi Profpat
Attached is an extract showing the diagram referred to (I can copy the text from Word but the diagram does not paste). It is based on a simple premise that all forces are really effects and do not rely upon the interchange of bosons. This is already accepted for gravity but not for the other 'forces' in nature.

Can you explain your 'binding action'?

regards
Felix

Last edited by Felix Schrodinger : 02-05-2008 at 06:55 AM.
  
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Re: An Idea
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Re: An Idea - 02-01-2008, 10:44 AM

Thanks for the link Felix. It is an ingenious way you have the proton attached to the neutron. If you continue though with a helium atom how would the 2 protons and2 neutrons attach. Wouldn't that necessitate a proton having a charge of +2.

In my idea I view the proton and neutron to be made up of positive and negative charges. This might be best explained by viewing the diagram of the octant, which is made up of 4 positive and 4 negative areas. The positive areas being surrounded by negative areas and the negative areas being surrounded by positive areas. Now if these were magnetic positive and negative areas you could attch another octant to the first one by making sure the positive areas are touching the negative areas, and so on.

However since the proton is a geodesic dome and not a geodesic sphere there would be a limit to this stacking.

Best to you Felix,

Pat

Last edited by Profpat : 02-01-2008 at 10:46 AM. Reason: spelling
  
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Re: An Idea
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Re: An Idea - 02-01-2008, 10:56 AM



The depression stayed with me for over a year; it was like an animal, a well-defined, spatially localizable thing. I would wake up, open my eyes, listen -- Is it here or isn't? No sign of it. Perhaps it's asleep. Perhaps it will leave me alone today. Carefully, very carefully, I get out of bed. All is quiet. I go to the kitchen, start breakfast. Not a sound. TV -Good Morning America-, David What's-his-name, a guy I can't stand. I eat and watch the guests. Slowly the food fills my stomach and gives me strength. Now a quick excursion to the bathroom, and out for my morning walk -and here she is, my faithful depression: "Did you think you could leave without me?"
Feyerabend writing in his autobiography, Killing Time

http://www.answers.com/topic/paul-feyerabend

http://www.answers.com/topic/copenhagen-interpretation

http://www.answers.com/topic/conscio...auses-collapse

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Re: An Idea
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Re: An Idea - 02-01-2008, 11:17 AM

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The root of these paradoxes in relation to thoughtfulness and transcendence lies in the insuperable problem of formulating the aim. The aim cannot be anything less than Brahman. That is the eternal hope. Every single act can have that aim because each act focusses upon a specific target in time and space which is Brahman. That is, at one level, the joy and the absurdity of it. In every act of manifestation - bathing, walking, mailing a message - the Logos is present. There is a sense in which the aim - the transcendental Brahman - is present in each moment of time as well as in every act at each point of space and in every thought. What, then, obscures the aim of a manifold human being of becoming totally one and remaining constantly attuned to Brahman? Why does a person need the sacred OM as the bow and to be continually tuning all one's instruments? Can one ever receive in a world of shadowy knowledge any real teaching concerning the inward meaning of the Soundless Sound? Who will teach the true intonation of the OM and everything to which it corresponds in thought, motive, act and feeling? As the mystery deepens, one must come to recognize that even in the largest perspectives of life, one can discern something that is false and which obscures still greater realities.
Dear Drifter

Theosophy rules OK?

But my religious beliefs don't restrain me from wanting to know the truth about the construction of the universe which I perceive about me. Having an interest in the metaphysical does not preclude my quest in the physical - it only broadens it.

As Dr Johnson might have said "I'm sorry this reply is so long - I didn't have time to write a short one."

Felix
  
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Re: An Idea - 02-01-2008, 11:37 AM

That's fine Felix, as long as this "I" and this "me" is understood to be two seperate aspects of the One inseparable nature.
It isn't about 'religion' precluding, excluding anything, although 'religion', even scientific dogmatic 'beliefs' is oppressive to free-thought.
The nature of the universe is an ongoing event appearing as destruction and construction.
An involuting, convoluting torus rotating outward from within.
Taken together they are both evolving aspects.
Just another way of killing time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix Schrodinger View Post
Dear Drifter

Theosophy rules OK?

But my religious beliefs don't restrain me from wanting to know the truth about the construction of the universe which I perceive about me. Having an interest in the metaphysical does not preclude my quest in the physical - it only broadens it.

As Dr Johnson might have said "I'm sorry this reply is so long - I didn't have time to write a short one."

Felix
  
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