An Idea

[austintorn@aol.com]

Ain’t nothing there,
No place, no space,
No influences, no e/m,
No where, no how, no what,
No who, no then, no when,

Or,

There is no place empty of field.

Either way, the void doesn’t exist.

Is there a void in your life, Prof?

[Profpat]

When Schrodinger's cat eats your mind, it would__It's a lot like my favorite drug__LSD__All logic is imagination__But then, back to science__and Schrodinger's cat dies, iff the radiation be strong enough, over the time factor...

So Pat, honestly__Why would you want to take so many young people's minds, on this mythical imagination ride of science pretense...?

Well I teach accounting Lloyd which is a conceptual imaginative information system. When it comes to the void I admit I'm out of the area of the physical science and in the domain of the metaphysical, where imagination and logic rule, like Plato's cave analogy.

I don't think Felix wants to eat my brain so we'll just give him catnip, it's good for the imagination.

[Profpat]

Ain’t nothing there,

No place, no space,
No influences, no e/m,
No where, no how, no what,
No who, no then, no when,

Or,

There is no place empty of field.

Either way, the void doesn’t exist.

Is there a void in your life, Prof?

There is no empty space or empty field in our universe. Amen. I agree. There is nothing outside our universe. The universe is expanding or stretching.

[austintorn@aol.com]

There is no empty space or empty field in our universe. Amen. I agree. There is nothing outside our universe. The universe is expanding or stretching.

Yes, it is the universe that is doing it all by itself, including making space-time. Ain't no void' outside to expand into.

[Profpat]

Yes, it is the universe that is doing it all by itself, including making space-time. Ain't no void' outside to expand into.

And therefore it expands or stretches into what or where? Oh! I have a great idea how about into NOTHING.

[austintorn@aol.com]

No into. It makes its own place and space.

Where's Fredrick? He's good for nothing, ha-ha.

[Profpat]

No into. It makes its own place and space.

Where's Fredrick? He's good for nothing, ha-ha.

It's place and space has never changed only expanded or stretched, and to do that it needs a place to stretch to. I know it's only stretching itself but it requires the Void to receive that expansion.

Now GIVEN that the Void is a POSSIBILITY, I think it is the most logical, simple, understandable, nonparadoxical solution. But to each their own.

You are an anti-nothingest.

[G_burnett]

http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/bigbang/index.html

there is better command of the language here then with me ..kind regards graham

[austintorn@aol.com]

TIMELESS REALITY

(From the Atoms and the Void List)

The first piece of Mathematics we need is what is called an Eigenfunction. This is simply an equation that takes the form


OP*S=e*S


Where OP is an operator that acts on S the system state, usually a vector, also called the Eigenstate, which results in the product of an Eigenvalue e, a scalar, and the Eigenstate. The exact form this can take we need not worry about here. Another function I need to mention is the Hamiltonian which is the energy state of a system. Which is;

H=T+V

Where T is kinetic energy and V is potential energy. You can think of T as the energy of motion and V the energy of position.


Now we can start. The fundamental equation of Quantum Mechanics is the famous Schrodinger equation. This is an Eigenfunction equation. It takes the form.


{( -hbar^2/2*m)* del^2 + V} *[Y>= E*[Y>

Where

del is the three space derivative operator, V is potential energy Y is the wave function of the system, the Eigenstate, hbar is the reduced Planck constant and E is energy, the Eigenvalue.

Therefore we have

H= {( -hbar^2/2*m)* del^2 + V} The Hamiltonian operator

[Y> the Eigenstate

E the Eigen value so

H*[H>=E*[Y>


This is the time independent Schrodinger equation.

Now to bring time into this we need to have a time dependent Schrodinger equation. For this we have another Eigenfunction


{ i*hbar*pd/pdt} [Y>= E*[Y>

Where i*hbar*pd/pdt is the time translation operator. Here pd means partial derivative.


This gives us

H*[Y>=E*[Y> = { i*hbar*pd/pdt} [Y>



H*[Y>={ i*hbar*pd/pdt} [Y>

This is the time dependent Schrodinger equation.


Now in Quantum Cosmology we need to write a Schrodinger equation for the whole Universe. To do this we need to replace the Standard Hamiltonian with the Cosmological Hamiltonian and Eigenstate. When we do this we get the famous Wheeler De Witt equation which replaces an operator acting on a three dimension configuration space with an operator acting over all field configurations of space times, called Super Mini space. This is a difficult to write in full detail and is very difficult to solve. But we can write simple versions which give us approximate solutions. It's thought that a Quantum Theory of Gravity will give an exact form and an exact solution.

So we write


H*[Y> = E*{Y>

However when we look at the whole Universe

E=0

So we have


H*[Y>= 0


We have lost time from our equation. This is one way to express the time problem in Quantum Gravity.


Now here I offer a rather simple solution which I think has merit. Remember the time translation eigenfunction?

{ i*hbar*pd/pdt} [Y>= E*[Y>

Well there is no reason we can't write this equation as;


{ i*hbar*pd/pdt} [Y>= - E*[Y>


This is because there is no reason why we must assume an arrow of time in these equations and the second equation is the time reversed version of the first which perhaps is made more obvious by writing these equations as;


+ { i*hbar*pd/pdt} [Y>= E*[Y>


- { i*hbar*pd/pdt} [Y>= E*[Y>



Now think is terms of the Wheeler De Witt equation. Might we not consider this equation as a superposition of both the time forward and the time reversed time dependent equations? So we have.


H(+) *[Y> + H(-)*[Y> = H*[Y> = { i*hbar*pd/pdt} [Y> - { i*hbar*pd/pdt} [Y>=0


H[Y>=0



An equation without time. So based on this idea we have lose time in the Quantum equation for the Universe because this wave function is a superposition of two Universes evolving in opposite time directions. Or equivalently, our Universe is the result of a previous Universe that contracted and tunneling into a new Universe which is ours, or again equivalently, our Universe tunneled out of pure Nothingness into the Universe we have today and a negative energy twin Universe evolving backward in time.


If this is true we should see this reflected in the Friedman equations for Inflation, which must be able to predict inflation in both time directions. And in fact this is the case. We have;

(1/a)*(d^2a/dt^2) =(8*pi*G/3c^4)*rho= Lambda/3

Which solves as

a(t)= A*exp[H*t] + B*exp[[-H*t]

Where

H= sqrt[lambda/3]


So you have four solutions.

1) +H & +t Positive Energy Universe inflating forward in time.


2) -H -t Negative energy Universe inflating backward in time.


3) + H -t Positive energy Universe contracting backward in time.


4) -H +t Negative Energy Universe contracting forward in time.


Solutions 1 and 2 are obvious physical solutions. But what are solutions 3 and 4 all about? Well, it turns out that String Theory may provide an answer. These are just what is called the T duality solutions (Which I won't explain here) of the physical solution and in terms of particle physics represents the supplemental particle states proposed by Bob Klauber and myself as the solution to vacuum energy problem. The Diagram below illustrates this.

TAO?

[Mikal]

It's place and space has never changed only expanded or stretched, and to do that it needs a place to stretch to. I know it's only stretching itself but it requires the Void to receive that expansion.

Now GIVEN that the Void is a POSSIBILITY, I think it is the most logical, simple, understandable, nonparadoxical solution. But to each their own.

You are an anti-nothingest.

I have been following your discussion on the void and decided to drop this here…

Bernard Haisch is an astrophysicist and staff scientist at the Lockheed Martin Solar and Astrophysics Laboratory, also deputy director of the Center for Extreme Ultraviolet Astrophysics at the University of California, Berkley, also a visiting scientist at the Max-Planck Institute fur Extraterrestrische Physik in Garching, Germany. He just wrote his first book, “The God Theory” Universes, Zero-Point Fields and what is behind it all.

Haisch as a scientist and astrophysicist always was intrigued by the Genesis statement, “God said, Let there be light and there was light.” He puzzled over the contradiction how can light have appeared on the first day of creation when the sun, moon and stars—obvious sources of light—were not created until the fourth? He queried, the sequence is wrong, it is out of order.

At the time of this query he was working with German scientist and physicist Rueda on The Zero-Point Field. One day on a relaxing stroll he happened to come across a small bookstore. Upon browsing the shelves he found the book, “The Other Bible” which is a collection of ancient scriptures which never made it into the Bible.
In this book he came across a startling passage in a text known as the Haggadah, a collection of legends within the Jewish Kabbalah.

The Haggadah states…
“The light created at the very beginning is not the same as the light emitted by the Sun, the Moon and the stars, which appeared only on the fourth day. But let me tell you, there’s a different light. The light of the first day was of a sort that would have enabled man to see the world at a glance from one end to the other. Anticipating the wickedness of the sinful generations of the deluge and the Tower of Babel, who were unworthy to enjoy the blessings of such light, God concealed it, but in the world to come it will appear to the pious in all its pristine glory.”
(Apologies for the theological terms as no wish to offend, Haisch views the legend as an allegorical story, it was the passage itself that Haisch found stunning)

Haisch does not dispel the Big Bang, he wonders what caused it.
In his book he ponders if the deceptively simple “Let there be light” might actually contain a profound cosmological truth. At the point of finding this book, Haisch was involved with physicist Rueda on a complex mathematical analysis of Newton’s Principia equation F=ma. They were also involved in understanding the most fundamental property of matter—inertia.
Rueda’s derivation was that mass becomes, in effect an illusion. Matter resists acceleration, not because it possesses some innate property called mass, as Newton postulated, but because the zero-point field exerts a force whenever acceleration takes place. To put it in somewhat metaphysical terms, there exists a background sea of quantum light (the electromagnetic zero-point field) filling the universe, and that light generates a force that opposes acceleration when you push on any material object. The action of that quantum light is what makes matter the seemingly solid, stable stuff of which we and our world are made. Haisch and Rueda together created a scientific paper called, “Inertia as a zero-point field Lorenz force” which in the scientific community was accepted, criticized and even praised. Together these two scientists, through a NASA funded grant are working on a hypothesis of the Law of Inertia.

Haisch views all ancient esoteric writings on creation as implicating “light” as a key to the creation process and references equivalent to the modern reference to electromagnetic fields and forms of electromagnetic radiation. This is explained quite in-depth in his book which I will not quote here.

The book essentially references the possibility that all references to “light” is to an entirely different universal light radiation that does not originate in the sun, the moon or the stars, but rather in the electromagnetic zero-point field that may be involved in the origin of the properties of matter in a fundamental way. He states there is a clue here—an insight into the creation process itself.

I located the book, “The God Theory” in the science section of Chapters Bookstore. I would suggest it to anybody seeking to learn about the zero-point field and desiring to put a metaphysical conception of the universe on a more solid scientific basis grounded in cutting-edge science. It is simply a scientific approach to reconcile science, religion and ancient mystical knowledge. It is also an examination of consciousness not as a mere epiphenomenon of the brain, but consciousness as our connection to God (the mystery beyond mystery) the source of all consciousness.


Regards Mikal