An Idea

[Profpat]

One who holds power over other lives?

Only if the others allow it, Give me liberty or give me death. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No good deed goes unpunished. I'm a Buddhist and a Hindu when it comes to such matters. When I see evil I walk away.

[Profpat]

Can I fart now, or must I hold it for Mikal...?

Bye, bye...

Just don't let Austin light it.

[labelwench]

Profpat.

They do not allow it.....

They request it......

Think on that.

I am the one who would walk away, but not from a request and a need clearly stated.

[Profpat]

Profpat.

They do not allow it.....

They request it......

Think on that.

I am the one who would walk away, but not from a request and a need clearly stated.

You're right. When requested I am usually there. Just don't ask me to volunteer.

Srimad Bhagvatam.pdf 586 reads. Uddhava Gita from Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 11 515 reads ...... “The wise lament neither for the living or the dead.” ...

[Mikal]

How does society best avoid oppression? If you have an oppressive upper class controlling an oppressed lower class, or an oppressed lower class rising up violently to oppress the oppressors, either way there is oppression. But is there a responsible administration of wealth and power that works without oppression? Or is there a responsible redistribution of wealth that treats the wealthy with equality? And at the bottom line, is there a solution that doesn’t destroy personal initiative?

Hi Bogie…perhaps you are the only one who truly sees what I have been trying to shine a big light on!

This oppressive upper class you speak of has already had the very structure of their thought conditioned by the contradictions of the concrete, existential situation by which they were shaped. That situation was the pathology of power which made them oppressors.

The oppressed lower class you speak of so too has already had the very structure of their thought conditioned by the contradictions of the concrete, existential situation by which they were shaped. That situation robbed them of the right to critically think for themselves and took away their right to their own decisional power which can only happen by others in power doing all the thinking—hence they were made the oppressed.

A responsible administration of wealth and power can work without oppression only in a just society and a democracy that invests its monetary value in the life of a whole society instead of pouring its wealth into a Military Industrial Complex which continues to wield its powers in the annihilation of small, vulnerable nations and genocidal pursuits against all the world’s citizens.

Redistribution of wealth that treats the wealthy with equality! I am sure this is a trick question..hmmm…there are many forms of wealth. My daughter and her husband are wealthy—pure result of many, many years of hard toil, sweat and tears, they employ 13 men and ensure they will support their families—that’s their contribution to sharing their good fortune.
Now let us take the wealth of Michelle Obama. Her pet project is “the obese children of the US.” Seems a worthy pursuit but she did make a small error in a speech to a gathered group. She said obesity in children had to be ended because obesity disallows entry into the Military. So what she was essentially saying was that we need healthy young people so they can become soldiers who will shed their blood and die for their country.

How can we ensure the preservation of personal initiative? That truly must be respected but it must be taken out of the confines of “aggressive competitiveness” and it could be allowed to grow in the fertile ground of empathic presence with life. With empathic presence with all people the greatest ability you can share is to empower a person to see opportunities when they rise and share how they are grasped. So too sharing the power that enables another to see the structuring in a problem empowers another to become a problem-solver instead of particapating in a problem and being overwhelmed by it…

Thank you for your insight Bogie….and an opportunity for good discussion!

Regards Mikal

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Time for a glass of new whiskey, and a old song...

Well, she jumped into bed,
And covered up her head,
And said, I could not find er'

I knowed damn well,
She was lying like hell,
So I jumped right in behind er'

Oh, I picked up the sheet,
And tickled her feet,
And see her ol' **** *******
etc, etc, etc...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPNaOt646_M

[Bogie]

I don't think we can find the solution by responding to the disadvantaged by blaming someone for their being disadvantaged and then making it up to them by giving them entitlements. Oh sure, it puts off the problem but it creates a more enduring problem; who pays for the entitlement. At first it works because you force the few at the top to pay and give that payment to the most needy. Fine, but then the oppressed see that they can get entitlements by claiming disadvantage at the fault of still larger groups of the wealthy. Pretty soon it could get out of hand and the wealthy are the victims, the only victims that cannot claim disadvantage because until their wealth has all been redistributed no one will act on their complaint. System fails, personal initiative is gone; just give to everyone who claims a need and take from anyone left who has anything. Will everyone be happy then and stop claiming disadvantage and blaming someone else. I say there has to be some level of suffering that can be accepted without blaming someone. When some pain is allowed to occur before it has to be fixed forever it will incentivise people to plan ahead, work hard and put away for the rainy day. And when you know what you have saved will not be taken from you then more would be willing to share with others who they know are truly disadvantaged and not just claiming and blaming.

[Bogie]

Hi Bogie…perhaps you are the only one who truly sees what I have been trying to shine a big light on!

This oppressive upper class you speak of has already had the very structure of their thought conditioned by the contradictions of the concrete, existential situation by which they were shaped. That situation was the pathology of power which made them oppressors.

The oppressed lower class you speak of so too has already had the very structure of their thought conditioned by the contradictions of the concrete, existential situation by which they were shaped. That situation robbed them of the right to critically think for themselves and took away their right to their own decisional power which can only happen by others in power doing all the thinking—hence they were made the oppressed.

A responsible administration of wealth and power can work without oppression only in a just society and a democracy that invests its monetary value in the life of a whole society instead of pouring its wealth into a Military Industrial Complex which continues to wield its powers in the annihilation of small, vulnerable nations and genocidal pursuits against all the world’s citizens.

Redistribution of wealth that treats the wealthy with equality! I am sure this is a trick question..hmmm…there are many forms of wealth. My daughter and her husband are wealthy—pure result of many, many years of hard toil, sweat and tears, they employ 13 men and ensure they will support their families—that’s their contribution to sharing their good fortune.
Now let us take the wealth of Michelle Obama. Her pet project is “the obese children of the US.” Seems a worthy pursuit but she did make a small error in a speech to a gathered group. She said obesity in children had to be ended because obesity disallows entry into the Military. So what she was essentially saying was that we need healthy young people so they can become soldiers who will shed their blood and die for their country.

How can we ensure the preservation of personal initiative? That truly must be respected but it must be taken out of the confines of “aggressive competitiveness” and it could be allowed to grow in the fertile ground of empathic presence with life. With empathic presence with all people the greatest ability you can share is to empower a person to see opportunities when they rise and share how they are grasped. So too sharing the power that enables another to see the structuring in a problem empowers another to become a problem-solver instead of particapating in a problem and being overwhelmed by it…

Thank you for your insight Bogie….and an opportunity for good discussion!

Regards Mikal

Thank you for the kind words and insightful post. We share some common ground and yet there are forces at work in the world that cannot be unwound unilaterally. A strong national defense, for any nation, is a deterrent to aggression as well as enabling aggression. I think I told you earlier that the world is as screwed up as a soup sandwich and to unwind today's problems requires strong faith, while at the same time forces are working against faith because of the discord between religions. How can we learn to find our own faith and meaning if we cannot free ourselves from those who want to indoctrinate us?

[Mikal]

Interesting.

I made that remark to one of the moderators when first I subscribed, so doubt that I could have contributed to any earlier statistics.......

Just an observation.

Just for the record LW...I have been on this forum since 2008 and I have not been banned. I do like good discussion, good debate, I respect that others have diverse perspectives as do I. However, I am no wussy...I do know how to stand up for myself especially when it comes to personal attack.


Regards Mikal

[Mikal]

Thank you for the kind words and insightful post. We share some common ground and yet there are forces at work in the world that cannot be unwound unilaterally. A strong national defense, for any nation, is a deterrent to aggression as well as enabling aggression. I think I told you earlier that the world is as screwed up as a soup sandwich and to unwind today's problems requires strong faith, while at the same time forces are working against faith because of the discord between religions. How can we learn to find our own faith and meaning if we cannot free ourselves from those who want to indoctrinate us?

Its strange Bogie, but I seem to have been born with an aversion to religion. For me, since a small child I only had faith in a very private and personal God. As I have had quite abit of existential angst in my life I can only attribute my survival to a deep inner strength I had to pull up from deep within my own faith.

The only solution I can see to those who want to indoctrinate is not to attack their religion but suggest to them they undergo a study into the history of their religion. That way you expose a way but you leave the decision up to the other person. I tried that with my young nephew and he did go to the nearest University and undertake a study....he was in shock to discover the truth but did come back to say thanks...

Regards Mikal