An Idea

[Bogie]

It does seem to tell a story. Starvation, humiliation, that sort of thing.

[Mikal]

Sorry LW...I was on the opposite page from you, catching up on posts! Was not aware that you had posted. The picture just struck me is all...


Regards Mikal

[Max™]

Uh... I have several philosophical constructs which are completely lacking anything resembling faith, much less a deity of any sort...

The holocaust was a result of a deranged person, and the error of allowing people to have power over others, not godlessness.

I can state simply that whether or not there is a god, if you would not like to be treated inhumanely, you should not treat others that way.

It only takes a simple realization: you are not the only person on the planet. All these other shambling upright apes have an awareness just like you do, only it is located in a different position, and oriented a different direction.

I worry about how much awareness insects have when I kill them, and am completely without anything resembling religion.

[Profpat]

Hi Max;

It's my opinion that without a belief in God "All these other shambling upright apes", is how humanity is viewed, and therefore atrocities can be easily justified. When mankind is viewed as "special" because there is a God it becomes more difficult for any justification.

But I fear I cast my "pearls" in the wrong spot so let's return to the topic of TOE.

My sincere apologes to all who may have found my digression offensive.

Best to all and God bless you,

Pat

[Profpat]

There are something like ten million million million million million million million million million million million million million million (1 with eighty zeroes after it) particles in the region of the universe that we can observe. Where did they all come from? The answer is that, in quantum theory, particles can be created out of energy in the form of particle/antiparticle parts. But that just raises the question of where the energy came from. The answer is that the total energy of the universe is exactly zero. The matter in the universe is made out of positive energy. However, the matter is all attracting itself by gravity. Two pieces of matter that are close to each other have less energy than the same two pieces a long way apart, because you have to expend energy to separate them against the gravitational force that is pulling them together. Thus in a sense, the gravitational field has negative energy. In the case of a universe that is approximately uniform in space, one can show that this negative gravitational energy exactly cancels the positive energy represented by the matter. So the total energy of the universe is zero.

Now twice zero is also zero. Thus the universe can double the amount of positive matter energy and also double the negative gravitational energy without violation of the conservation of energy.

"It is said that there's no such thing as a free lunch. But the universe is the ultimate free lunch." 136 S. Hawkings

[austintorn@aol.com]

And what a fine buffet is it, at least here on earth.

There is a restaurant on the moon, but, alas, it has no atmosphere.

Besides, no one goes there anymore, for it's too crowded.

The quantum realm jitterbugs since nonexistence just can't happen.

[Profpat]

Hi Austin;

It seems like you and Hawkings agree that everything nets to zero. That to me would indicate that all is illusion. Maybe we got nothing from nothing?

Best,

Pat

[austintorn@aol.com]

Hi Austin;

It seems like you and Hawkings agree that everything nets to zero. That to me would indicate that all is illusion. Maybe we got nothing from nothing?

Best,

Pat

Meanwhile, there's credit, a passing, temporary state until the debit comes due. And, yes, an illusion of sorts in that there is no definite purpose to it all.

It's just that no property can be special since there could be no pre-existing definition to the jiggling ground state; thus, as you said, via Hawking, the amount of energy is not special, nor its location, nor its time, etc. Nor is a universe, nor the earth, nor the galaxy. All is relative to zippo. There is not even an absolute place for rest, and so that's why there must probably always be motion as the natural state. That, plus nonexistence being so perfectly unstable that it can't cut it.

I guess the lunch is free, but, then we kind of have to give it back, but then there's always a new buffet springing up somewhere else.

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Sorry to bust your comfortable bubble Pat__but, how easily you forget the scientific facts:

Energy Is The Measurement__Only...!!!

E = MC^2 --> Formula of Measurement__Only...!!!

Matter Is The Entity__Always, Eternally and Infinitely...

The Total Energy of The Universe Is An Awfully Big Zero__Like Infinite(2 zeros, laid side by side), to Match Its Eternal Matter Entity = AFS(absolute field substance)(absolute fundamental substance)...

There are something like ten million million million million million million million million million million million million million million (1 with eighty zeroes after it) particles in the region of the universe that we can observe. Where did they all come from? The answer is that, in quantum theory, particles can be created out of energy in the form of particle/antiparticle parts. But that just raises the question of where the energy came from. The answer is that the total energy of the universe is exactly zero. The matter in the universe is made out of positive energy. However, the matter is all attracting itself by gravity. Two pieces of matter that are close to each other have less energy than the same two pieces a long way apart, because you have to expend energy to separate them against the gravitational force that is pulling them together. Thus in a sense, the gravitational field has negative energy. In the case of a universe that is approximately uniform in space, one can show that this negative gravitational energy exactly cancels the positive energy represented by the matter. So the total energy of the universe is zero.

Now twice zero is also zero. Thus the universe can double the amount of positive matter energy and also double the negative gravitational energy without violation of the conservation of energy.

"It is said that there's no such thing as a free lunch. But the universe is the ultimate free lunch." 136 S. Hawkings

[Profpat]

OK LLoyd...