An Idea

[Profpat]

OK. I thought they met with Wiki's definition of dimension though. Like Rod Sterling said at the beginning of the TWILIGHT ZONE, its the dimension of Sight and Sound. Welcome to the Twilight Zone Felix

Best,

Pat

[dipayankar]

So are we converging to the fact that we do not need extra dimensions? Prof, apart from the difference in literary meanings, do we really need the extra 'dimensions' or are we looking at two sides of the same coin??

[Profpat]

So are we converging to the fact that we do not need extra dimensions? Prof, apart from the difference in literary meanings, do we really need the extra 'dimensions' or are we looking at two sides of the same coin??

I don't think it's a question of needing them Dipanyankar, rather it's a question of do we have them. We either do or we don't and any answer we come up with won't change that fact.

I don't know why you and Felix don't like my Idea that color and sound are those inner dimensions. Without those dimensions we would not have sight or sound. Can you imagine a soundless black universe. Thank God I can't though That is how Helen Keller lived her life.

So are they necessary?

I think on this point we can only agree that we disagree.

Now for Felix's excellent question. What are strings or fundamental substance made of?

Best,

Pat

[dipayankar]

Actually I am trying to shrug off what I was taught in school. Dimensions are properties of space. Then we had time thrust on us as the fourth dimension. Now as we are trying to salvage ourselves from this onslaught, comprehending colour and sound as dimensions would be like an avalanche for me....

I don't think it's a question of needing them Dipanyankar, rather it's a question of do we have them. We either do or we don't and any answer we come up with won't change that fact.

I don't know why you and Felix don't like my Idea that color and sound are those inner dimensions. Without those dimensions we would not have sight or sound. Can you imagine a soundless black universe. Thank God I can't though That is how Helen Keller lived her life.

So are they necessary?

I think on this point we can only agree that we disagree.

Now for Felix's excellent question. What are strings or fundamental substance made of?

Best,

Pat

[Profpat]

Hi Dipayankar and Felix;

What are strings made of? According to NOVA, they are vibrating strands of energy. According to NASA, nothing makes them up. They are the fundamental constituent of matter.

In string theory, there are no elementary particles (like electrons or quarks), but pieces of vibrating strings. Each vibration mode corresponds to a different particle and determines its charge and its mass. In the current understanding of the theory, those strings are not "made of" anything: they are the fundamental constituent of matter. The consequences of replacing point-like particles by vibrating microscopic strings are enormous. The only consistent framework to describe those strings implies a 10- or even conceivably an 11-dimension world in which 6 or 7 dimensions are curled up. Those extra dimensions are the ones which determine the properties of the world we live in. The larger dimensions are what we perceive as the ordinary space and time.

Best,

Pat

[dleviwing]

A fundamental constituent is the same as saying units of fundamental substance. In this use of the word energy it is also saying fundamental substance. We know the FS only by its behavior and the phenomena it produces; the forces of nature, light, charge, space, all the particles and in fact everything physical in our universe. What you need to answer is “What are the fundamental properties of this fundamental substance that allow it to produce so many different phenomena?”; vibration is not a property of the substance; it’s motions due to its properties etc.. IMHO string theory interpretations are useless and the math is only applicable to a more accurate prediction of the effects of gravity.

Profat;
Unfortunately people are lead to believe that “dimension” has other meanings in the field of science; it helps to sell Dr. Greene's and Koko Kaku's books.

Dip;
Apparently your school assumed you had read the dictionary definitions!

[dipayankar]

I guess I know this defination. What really intreagues me is how can tiny curled up dimensions actually define the Universe??

Hi Dipayankar and Felix;

What are strings made of? According to NOVA, they are vibrating strands of energy. According to NASA, nothing makes them up. They are the fundamental constituent of matter.

In string theory, there are no elementary particles (like electrons or quarks), but pieces of vibrating strings. Each vibration mode corresponds to a different particle and determines its charge and its mass. In the current understanding of the theory, those strings are not "made of" anything: they are the fundamental constituent of matter. The consequences of replacing point-like particles by vibrating microscopic strings are enormous. The only consistent framework to describe those strings implies a 10- or even conceivably an 11-dimension world in which 6 or 7 dimensions are curled up. Those extra dimensions are the ones which determine the properties of the world we live in. The larger dimensions are what we perceive as the ordinary space and time.

Best,

Pat

[dipayankar]

They sure did... but the blows were very sudden and I am still recovering..

A fundamental constituent is the same as saying units of fundamental substance. In this use of the word energy it is also saying fundamental substance. We know the FS only by its behavior and the phenomena it produces; the forces of nature, light, charge, space, all the particles and in fact everything physical in our universe. What you need to answer is “What are the fundamental properties of this fundamental substance that allow it to produce so many different phenomena?”; vibration is not a property of the substance; it’s motions due to its properties etc.. IMHO string theory interpretations are useless and the math is only applicable to a more accurate prediction of the effects of gravity.

Profat;
Unfortunately people are lead to believe that “dimension” has other meanings in the field of science; it helps to sell Dr. Greene's and Koko Kaku's books.

Dip;
Apparently your school assumed you had read the dictionary definitions!

[Profpat]

Hi David:

I'm honored that you visited my thread. I know you and I disagree on the FS. I think it is the one dimensional planck length string, and you are an opponent to strings.

As far as the properties to strings I imagine them to be similiar, though not, gamma radiation.

What are the properties of gamma radiation?
Gamma radiation is very high-energy ionizing radiation. Gamma photons have about 10,000 times as much energy as the photons in the visible range of the electromagnetic spectrum.
Gamma photons have no mass and no electrical charge--they are pure electromagnetic energy.
Because of their high energy, gamma photons travel at the speed of light and can cover hundreds to thousands of meters in air before spending their energy. They can pass through many kinds of materials, including human tissue. Very dense materials, such as lead, are commonly used as shielding to slow or stop gamma photons.
Their wave lengths are so short that they must be measured in nanometers, billionths of a meter. They range from 3/100ths to 3/1,000ths of a nanometer.

As you know from my An Idea I believe strings are the FS which make up quarks, which make up the proton/neutron. Our 3 dimensional space.

Inside the tiny sphere are the 8 octants, the mathematical constructs of inner space. These octants I view to be vibrating areas which produce color and sound and other. These vibrations are quantifiable and are real properties of our reality. I look at this as those inner dimensions which enfold to create our 3 dimensional reality.

Best to you,

Pat

[Profpat]

Hi Dipayankar;

I know what you mean by dimensional confusion. I always had problem viewing time as a dimension.

The way I look at it is that you have your normal 3 dimensional space of L.W,H.
We'll say that this is a cube or a sphere. That is the 3 dimensional space.

But you have a dimension outside of that space, namely time which allows for movement. If we didn't have that our sphere would be static, it would just sit there. So we have the space/time continuum, which allows our sphere to become dynamic.

You also have dimensions inside that space, the octants which gives our 3 dimensional space 8 internal dimensions. I believe those octants inside our space are vibrating and create color and sound.

And so we have space, outer space and inner space, each with there own dimensional reality but all tied together.

Best to you,

Pat