An Idea

[G_burnett]

we posted over one another and your full poster is not showing up yet ... if it is some poor sheep being tazered after injections with Meth ... i will never talk to you again ...

[Max™]

>.<

>.> I had to make the joke, I can't resist!

"Tasing sheep on meth isn't normal
.... but on meth it is."

[Profpat]

ahhhh a new dimension!

That's all we need, another new dimension.

[Profpat]

It reminds me of a saying at California Polytechnic.

"Good old Cal-Poly where men are men and so are the women, and the sheep are worried"

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Lloyd,

From observation, when you believe that you are correct in your thinking, you become as subjective as any, in your adherence to your point of view.
I deny you the pleasure of a debate of perspectives simply because neither can ever be proven to the satisfaction of the other.

As for real or measurable to science, measurements are frequently inaccurate, and the conclusions drawn have been proven wrong in past.

I agree that at the fundamental level, there is no paradox or we would not exist.

The paradox is ever in our perception and language a most inaccurate tool, no matter how we use it, as it is ever subject to
interpretation.

If it's 'sport' you want, toy with the others....

No Lorrina, it wasn't sport I was after__it is usually seriousness with me, but I threw the last sentence in to make sure of your post's direction of meaning. Now seriously I think you've seen I attach no more significance to the subjective or the objective, as many of my past posts and diagrams have noted. To me, it's more the order of understanding what pertains to what. I see the subjective as being "About how we feel about the world, and how we may apply values to our overly valueless world." I see the objective as "How the world works scientifically and mechanically, and also how it may receive the needed values from the subjective", as in the form of possible new laws__so, I'm quite critical in my assessments__probably too much so, but oh well...

I just finished editing my daughter's senior grad paper titled; Crisis in Civil Social Consciousness: A Theoretical Survey of America’s Ethos and the Education of Character... Though she be my blood, I was truly amazed at its content, as she was able to tie in the values' necessities into the education of character, so well, I saw no need for improvement. Her central thesis was morality and esthetics, and how culture's historical mentalities, through the over-rationalization of intellect, have actually created mass societies lacking the older esthetic, moral and ethical values__and how a new understanding of esthetics is able to re-ground morality, ethics and logic__back into the Universal flow of nature. Her views offer a complete and reasonable grounding of values into rationality and science. I think she did a hell-of-a job...

This is something I will be expanding on in my own thread, after I get it all digested to my own satisfaction...

For now, no problem and no contest Lorrina__as I still love your perspectives, just as much as ever. You're great, thanks...

Btw, the super-subjective entails the super-objective__or in other words, if one contemplates deep enough into the subjective, to the super-subjective level, one will automatically see the super-objective epiphanized universal wit and wisdom 'utens'__The transfinite-super-rational state, Godel so often spoke of__'The Esthetica Arithmetica Logica Utens'__but only when the subjective and objective are processed as a unified complimentary state...

The above is nothing more than the universal common sense, or 'sensus communis...' It's also the 'Characteristica Universalis' Leibniz tried to complete, centuries ago...

[Profpat]

Maybe it was the BIG OM, rather than the Big Bang which started it all. We all know that everything vibrates, which I'm sure produces a sound, which may or not be heard. Music itself is very mathematical, and I believe in the music of the spheres, even at the quantum and galatic level. I wonder if we could silence ourselves, and even our minds, what the music might disclose to us. Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Christians and Muslims all have their sacred chants.

From the internet:

".... According to the Hindu view of creation, it was sound and not light that appeared first. In Vedic parlance it is called Nada Brahma or the Sound Celestial. Vedic rishis believed that the evolution of the Brahmand or universe was caused as a result of Bindu Vsphot or an atomic explosion, that produced infinite waves of sound, which represent cosmic ascent and expansion.
The sound was a monosyllable: Om. Since Om is related to the beginning of the universe, Hindus consider it the most sacred syllable with which Vedic mantras commence. Om is the principal name of the Supreme Being. It refers to all that it manifest and beyond. ...

[Mikal]

No Lorrina, it wasn't sport I was after__it is usually seriousness with me, but I threw the last sentence in to make sure of your post's direction of meaning. Now seriously I think you've seen I attach no more significance to the subjective or the objective, as many of my past posts and diagrams have noted. To me, it's more the order of understanding what pertains to what. I see the subjective as being "About how we feel about the world, and how we may apply values to our overly valueless world." I see the objective as "How the world works scientifically and mechanically, and also how it may receive the needed values from the subjective", as in the form of possible new laws__so, I'm quite critical in my assessments__probably too much so, but oh well...

I just finished editing my daughter's senior grad paper titled; Crisis in Civil Social Consciousness: A Theoretical Survey of America’s Ethos and the Education of Character... Though she be my blood, I was truly amazed at its content, as she was able to tie in the values' necessities into the education of character, so well, I saw no need for improvement. Her central thesis was morality and esthetics, and how culture's historical mentalities, through the over-rationalization of intellect, have actually created mass societies lacking the older esthetic, moral and ethical values__and how a new understanding of esthetics is able to re-ground morality, ethics and logic__back into the Universal flow of nature. Her views offer a complete and reasonable grounding of values into rationality and science. I think she did a hell-of-a job...

This is something I will be expanding on in my own thread, after I get it all digested to my own satisfaction...

For now, no problem and no contest Lorrina__as I still love your perspectives, just as much as ever. You're great, thanks...

Btw, the super-subjective entails the super-objective__or in other words, if one contemplates deep enough into the subjective, to the super-subjective level, one will automatically see the super-objective epiphanized universal wit and wisdom 'utens'__The transfinite-super-rational state, Godel so often spoke of__'The Esthetica Arithmetica Logica Utens'__but only when the subjective and objective are processed as a unified complimentary state...

The above is nothing more than the universal common sense, or 'sensus communis...' It's also the 'Characteristica Universalis' Leibniz tried to complete, centuries ago...

Hi Lloyd…congrats on your daughters paper!

In reference to “the education of character” does she see that, as we can meet a situation in life which has the potential to take us to a private moral and ethical struggle within, through which the passage allows the opportunity to bear the struggle and rise to a higher moral and ethical level simply because the bearing of it is to consciously take part in what becomes the education of character.

This is at least how I understand it from experience so is it along these lines of thought that the theme of her paper flows??

Regards Mikal

[Mikal]

Maybe it was the BIG OM, rather than the Big Bang which started it all. We all know that everything vibrates, which I'm sure produces a sound, which may or not be heard. Music itself is very mathematical, and I believe in the music of the spheres, even at the quantum and galatic level. I wonder if we could silence ourselves, and even our minds, what the music might disclose to us. Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Christians and Muslims all have their sacred chants.

From the internet:

".... According to the Hindu view of creation, it was sound and not light that appeared first. In Vedic parlance it is called Nada Brahma or the Sound Celestial. Vedic rishis believed that the evolution of the Brahmand or universe was caused as a result of Bindu Vsphot or an atomic explosion, that produced infinite waves of sound, which represent cosmic ascent and expansion.
The sound was a monosyllable: Om. Since Om is related to the beginning of the universe, Hindus consider it the most sacred syllable with which Vedic mantras commence. Om is the principal name of the Supreme Being. It refers to all that it manifest and beyond. ...

Sound.....in the beginning was the word....movement, vibration....meaning...

Regards Mikal

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Hi Lloyd…congrats on your daughters paper!

In reference to “the education of character” does she see that, as we can meet a situation in life which has the potential to take us to a private moral and ethical struggle within, through which the passage allows the opportunity to bear the struggle and rise to a higher moral and ethical level simply because the bearing of it is to consciously take part in what becomes the education of character.

This is at least how I understand it from experience so is it along these lines of thought that the theme of her paper flows??

Regards Mikal

A brief run-down Mikal:

ABSTRACT

This senior study is a theoretical paper looking at the current ethos of American society, its development and influences, where it may lead us socially and politically, and how, while defending one course of direction, one might change its course for the sincere betterment of self and society. Within Chapter 1 I discuss my relationship to this project and the various layers of experience that have shaped my current understanding. I close with a creative piece of meditations that provoked this senior study. Chapter 2 is a review of the current ethos of American society. It includes its development and criticizes its outcome. Chapter 3 is a review of American education and its loss of a moral and intellectual foundation, the criticism of it and what perhaps should be its true purpose. Chapter 4 explores the obstacles to traditional character education. Chapter 5 is an exploration of what is needed to restore our moral imagination. Chapter 6 includes an analysis of what has been covered and its conclusion.

Acknowledgements

To my mother and father who laid the foundation for how to live an esthetic life.

Table of Contents



Abstract

Acknowledgements

Chapter 1 ― Introduction

1. Most Current Thought

2. Ironies of Childhood

3. Character

4. Limitations

5. Defining Bias

4. Meditations on the Crisis in Civil Social Consciousness


Chapter 2 ― American Ethos

1. Mores of Individualism

2. Individualism Definable?

3. History of Rationalist Individualism

4. Therapeutic Mores: Public Life and the Consequences of Self-disclosure

5. Getting to Know the Therapeutic

6. Therapeutic Emotivism as an Ethic

7. Relativism



Chapter 3 ― American Education
1. Loss of the Foundation of Education

2. Not The Purpose of Education

3. The Purpose of Education


Chapter 4 — Education of Character
1. Obstacles to True Character Education


♦ Human Imperfection – The New Morality

♦ Toleration Intolerable
♦ Aversion to Fortitude, Self-Restraint & Guilt


♦ Multiculturalism & Common Culture

2. Therapeutic Education Disguised as Character Education

3. Bound to Life

4. Moral Imagination

5. New Age Utopia

6. An Attempt of Traditional Character Education


Chapter 5 — Restoring A Foundation of Understanding


1. Universals of Law, Natural Law & Moral Law


2. Esthetics: Finding the Universal Through Emotion

3. J.C. Friedrich Von Schiller

4. Johann Friedrich Herbart

5. Sensus Communis

6. The Golden Mean – Tension between Reason & Faith

Chapter 6 – Analysis & Conclusion

Annotated Bibliography
Full Bibliography of Works Cited

Anderson, D. C. (1992). The loss of virtue: Moral confusion and social disorder in Britain and America. [London]: Social Affairs Unit.

Ataly, Mehmet, (2007). Kant’s Aesthetic Theory: Subjectivity vs. Universal Validity. Stanford University Percipi 1: 44-52

Barzun, J., & Philipson, M. H. (1991). Begin here: The forgotten conditions of teaching and learning. Chicago: University of Chicago Press.

Bellah, R. N. (1991). The Good society. New York: Knopf.


Bellah, R. N. (200. Habits of the heart: Individualism and commitment in American life : with a new preface. Berkeley: University of California Press.

Berlin, I. (195. Two concepts of liberty. Oxford: Clarendon Press.

Bloom, A. D. (1987). The closing of the American mind: How higher education has failed democracy and impoverished the souls of today's students. New York: Simon and Schuster.

Etzioni, A. (1996). The new golden rule: Community and morality in a democratic society. New York: BasicBooks.

Gairdner, W. D. (200. The book of absolutes: A critique of relativism and a defence of universals. Montreal: McGill-Queen's University Press.

Herbart, J. F., Felkin, H. M., Felkin, E., & Browning, O. (189. Letters and lectures on education. London: S. Sonnenschein.

Herbart, J. F., Lange, A. F., & De Garmo, C. (1901). Outlines of educational doctrine. New York: The Macmillan company.

Herbart, J. F., Felkin, H. M., Felkin, E., Browning, O., & Herbart, J. F. (1910). The science of education: The general principles deduced from its aim and the æsthetic revelation of the world. London: Swan Sonnenschein &.

Hilgenheger, N. (1993). Johann Friedrich Herbart. PROSPECTS- UNESCO. 23 (3/4), 649.

Imber, J. B. (2004). Therapeutic culture: Triumph and defeat. New Brunswick, N.J.: Transaction.

Jeynes, W. (2007). American educational history: School, society, and the common good. Thousand Oaks: SAGE Publications.

Kilpatrick, W. (1992). Why Johnny can't tell right from wrong. New York: Simon & Schuster.

Kołakowski, L. (1990). Modernity on endless trial. Chicago: University of Chicago Press.

Literary and philosophical essays: French, German and Italian. With
introductions and notes. New York, Collier [c1910] Series: The Harvard
classics, 32.

Mitchell, R. (1981). The graves of academe. Boston: Little, Brown.

Nisbet, R. A. (1953). The quest for community; A study in the ethics of order and freedom. New York: Oxford University Press.

Rand, A. (1991). The Ayn Rand column: A collection of her weekly newspaper articles, written for the Los Angeles Times ; with additional, little-known essays. Oceanside, Calif: Second Renaissance Books.


Rand, A., & Branden, N. (1964). The virtue of selfishness, A new concept of egoism. [New York]: New American Library.

Sennett, R. (1974). The fall of public man. New York: Norton & Company.

Sykes, C. J. (1990). The hollow men: Politics and corruption in higher education. Washington, D.C.: Regnery Gateway.

Tocqueville, A. d., Lawrence, G., Mayer, J.P. (1969). Democracy in America. New York: HarperCollin.

[Mikal]

A brief run-down Mikal:

ABSTRACT

This senior study is a theoretical paper looking at the current ethos of American society, its development and influences, where it may lead us socially and politically, and how, while defending one course of direction, one might change its course for the sincere betterment of self and society. Within Chapter 1 I discuss my relationship to this project and the various layers of experience that have shaped my current understanding. I close with a creative piece of meditations that provoked this senior study. Chapter 2 is a review of the current ethos of American society. It includes its development and criticizes its outcome. Chapter 3 is a review of American education and its loss of a moral and intellectual foundation, the criticism of it and what perhaps should be its true purpose. Chapter 4 explores the obstacles to traditional character education. Chapter 5 is an exploration of what is needed to restore our moral imagination. Chapter 6 includes an analysis of what has been covered and its conclusion.

Acknowledgements

To my mother and father who laid the foundation for how to live an esthetic life.

Table of Contents



Abstract

Acknowledgements

Chapter 1 ― Introduction

1. Most Current Thought

2. Ironies of Childhood

3. Character

4. Limitations

5. Defining Bias

4. Meditations on the Crisis in Civil Social Consciousness


Chapter 2 ― American Ethos

1. Mores of Individualism

2. Individualism Definable?

3. History of Rationalist Individualism

4. Therapeutic Mores: Public Life and the Consequences of Self-disclosure

5. Getting to Know the Therapeutic

6. Therapeutic Emotivism as an Ethic

7. Relativism



Chapter 3 ― American Education
1. Loss of the Foundation of Education

2. Not The Purpose of Education

3. The Purpose of Education


Chapter 4 — Education of Character
1. Obstacles to True Character Education


♦ Human Imperfection – The New Morality

♦ Toleration Intolerable
♦ Aversion to Fortitude, Self-Restraint & Guilt


♦ Multiculturalism & Common Culture

2. Therapeutic Education Disguised as Character Education

3. Bound to Life

4. Moral Imagination

5. New Age Utopia

6. An Attempt of Traditional Character Education


Chapter 5 — Restoring A Foundation of Understanding


1. Universals of Law, Natural Law & Moral Law


2. Esthetics: Finding the Universal Through Emotion

3. J.C. Friedrich Von Schiller

4. Johann Friedrich Herbart

5. Sensus Communis

6. The Golden Mean – Tension between Reason & Faith

Chapter 6 – Analysis & Conclusion

Annotated Bibliography
Full Bibliography of Works Cited

Anderson, D. C. (1992). The loss of virtue: Moral confusion and social disorder in Britain and America. [London]: Social Affairs Unit.

Ataly, Mehmet, (2007). Kant’s Aesthetic Theory: Subjectivity vs. Universal Validity. Stanford University Percipi 1: 44-52

Barzun, J., & Philipson, M. H. (1991). Begin here: The forgotten conditions of teaching and learning. Chicago: University of Chicago Press.

Bellah, R. N. (1991). The Good society. New York: Knopf.


Bellah, R. N. (200. Habits of the heart: Individualism and commitment in American life : with a new preface. Berkeley: University of California Press.

Berlin, I. (195. Two concepts of liberty. Oxford: Clarendon Press.

Bloom, A. D. (1987). The closing of the American mind: How higher education has failed democracy and impoverished the souls of today's students. New York: Simon and Schuster.

Etzioni, A. (1996). The new golden rule: Community and morality in a democratic society. New York: BasicBooks.

Gairdner, W. D. (200. The book of absolutes: A critique of relativism and a defence of universals. Montreal: McGill-Queen's University Press.

Herbart, J. F., Felkin, H. M., Felkin, E., & Browning, O. (189. Letters and lectures on education. London: S. Sonnenschein.

Herbart, J. F., Lange, A. F., & De Garmo, C. (1901). Outlines of educational doctrine. New York: The Macmillan company.

Herbart, J. F., Felkin, H. M., Felkin, E., Browning, O., & Herbart, J. F. (1910). The science of education: The general principles deduced from its aim and the æsthetic revelation of the world. London: Swan Sonnenschein &.

Hilgenheger, N. (1993). Johann Friedrich Herbart. PROSPECTS- UNESCO. 23 (3/4), 649.

Imber, J. B. (2004). Therapeutic culture: Triumph and defeat. New Brunswick, N.J.: Transaction.

Jeynes, W. (2007). American educational history: School, society, and the common good. Thousand Oaks: SAGE Publications.

Kilpatrick, W. (1992). Why Johnny can't tell right from wrong. New York: Simon & Schuster.

Kołakowski, L. (1990). Modernity on endless trial. Chicago: University of Chicago Press.

Literary and philosophical essays: French, German and Italian. With
introductions and notes. New York, Collier [c1910] Series: The Harvard
classics, 32.

Mitchell, R. (1981). The graves of academe. Boston: Little, Brown.

Nisbet, R. A. (1953). The quest for community; A study in the ethics of order and freedom. New York: Oxford University Press.

Rand, A. (1991). The Ayn Rand column: A collection of her weekly newspaper articles, written for the Los Angeles Times ; with additional, little-known essays. Oceanside, Calif: Second Renaissance Books.


Rand, A., & Branden, N. (1964). The virtue of selfishness, A new concept of egoism. [New York]: New American Library.

Sennett, R. (1974). The fall of public man. New York: Norton & Company.

Sykes, C. J. (1990). The hollow men: Politics and corruption in higher education. Washington, D.C.: Regnery Gateway.

Tocqueville, A. d., Lawrence, G., Mayer, J.P. (1969). Democracy in America. New York: HarperCollin.

Thank you very much Lloyd. About all I can say is Kudos to your daughter and best of luck getting this influence to the enquiring minds.

Could not help but notice her dedication....if you read my last post in my thread, it may give you some insight into the importance of Mom and Dad and the pertinent significance of her dedication.

Regards Mikal