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Re: An Idea
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Re: An Idea - 03-20-2008, 04:08 PM

A fundamental constituent is the same as saying units of fundamental substance. In this use of the word energy it is also saying fundamental substance. We know the FS only by its behavior and the phenomena it produces; the forces of nature, light, charge, space, all the particles and in fact everything physical in our universe. What you need to answer is “What are the fundamental properties of this fundamental substance that allow it to produce so many different phenomena?”; vibration is not a property of the substance; it’s motions due to its properties etc.. IMHO string theory interpretations are useless and the math is only applicable to a more accurate prediction of the effects of gravity.

Profat;
Unfortunately people are lead to believe that “dimension” has other meanings in the field of science; it helps to sell Dr. Greene's and Koko Kaku's books.

Dip;
Apparently your school assumed you had read the dictionary definitions!



David
  
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Re: An Idea
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Re: An Idea - 03-20-2008, 04:12 PM

I guess I know this defination. What really intreagues me is how can tiny curled up dimensions actually define the Universe??


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Originally Posted by Profpat View Post
Hi Dipayankar and Felix;

What are strings made of? According to NOVA, they are vibrating strands of energy. According to NASA, nothing makes them up. They are the fundamental constituent of matter.

In string theory, there are no elementary particles (like electrons or quarks), but pieces of vibrating strings. Each vibration mode corresponds to a different particle and determines its charge and its mass. In the current understanding of the theory, those strings are not "made of" anything: they are the fundamental constituent of matter. The consequences of replacing point-like particles by vibrating microscopic strings are enormous. The only consistent framework to describe those strings implies a 10- or even conceivably an 11-dimension world in which 6 or 7 dimensions are curled up. Those extra dimensions are the ones which determine the properties of the world we live in. The larger dimensions are what we perceive as the ordinary space and time.

Best,

Pat
  
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Re: An Idea
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Re: An Idea - 03-20-2008, 04:14 PM

They sure did... but the blows were very sudden and I am still recovering..


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A fundamental constituent is the same as saying units of fundamental substance. In this use of the word energy it is also saying fundamental substance. We know the FS only by its behavior and the phenomena it produces; the forces of nature, light, charge, space, all the particles and in fact everything physical in our universe. What you need to answer is “What are the fundamental properties of this fundamental substance that allow it to produce so many different phenomena?”; vibration is not a property of the substance; it’s motions due to its properties etc.. IMHO string theory interpretations are useless and the math is only applicable to a more accurate prediction of the effects of gravity.

Profat;
Unfortunately people are lead to believe that “dimension” has other meanings in the field of science; it helps to sell Dr. Greene's and Koko Kaku's books.

Dip;
Apparently your school assumed you had read the dictionary definitions!
  
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Re: An Idea
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Re: An Idea - 03-20-2008, 08:01 PM

Hi David:

I'm honored that you visited my thread. I know you and I disagree on the FS. I think it is the one dimensional planck length string, and you are an opponent to strings.

As far as the properties to strings I imagine them to be similiar, though not, gamma radiation.

What are the properties of gamma radiation?
Gamma radiation is very high-energy ionizing radiation. Gamma photons have about 10,000 times as much energy as the photons in the visible range of the electromagnetic spectrum.
Gamma photons have no mass and no electrical charge--they are pure electromagnetic energy.
Because of their high energy, gamma photons travel at the speed of light and can cover hundreds to thousands of meters in air before spending their energy. They can pass through many kinds of materials, including human tissue. Very dense materials, such as lead, are commonly used as shielding to slow or stop gamma photons.
Their wave lengths are so short that they must be measured in nanometers, billionths of a meter. They range from 3/100ths to 3/1,000ths of a nanometer.

As you know from my An Idea I believe strings are the FS which make up quarks, which make up the proton/neutron. Our 3 dimensional space.

Inside the tiny sphere are the 8 octants, the mathematical constructs of inner space. These octants I view to be vibrating areas which produce color and sound and other. These vibrations are quantifiable and are real properties of our reality. I look at this as those inner dimensions which enfold to create our 3 dimensional reality.

Best to you,

Pat

Last edited by Profpat : 03-20-2008 at 08:03 PM. Reason: spelling
  
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Re: An Idea
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Re: An Idea - 03-20-2008, 08:28 PM

Hi Dipayankar;

I know what you mean by dimensional confusion. I always had problem viewing time as a dimension.

The way I look at it is that you have your normal 3 dimensional space of L.W,H.
We'll say that this is a cube or a sphere. That is the 3 dimensional space.

But you have a dimension outside of that space, namely time which allows for movement. If we didn't have that our sphere would be static, it would just sit there. So we have the space/time continuum, which allows our sphere to become dynamic.

You also have dimensions inside that space, the octants which gives our 3 dimensional space 8 internal dimensions. I believe those octants inside our space are vibrating and create color and sound.

And so we have space, outer space and inner space, each with there own dimensional reality but all tied together.

Best to you,

Pat

  
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Re: An Idea
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Re: An Idea - 03-21-2008, 02:40 AM

Theoritical Basic Properties of Superstrings According to Wikipedia:

Basic properties
String theory is formulated in terms of an action principle, either the Nambu-Goto action or the Polyakov action, which describes how strings move through space and time. Like springs with no external force applied, the strings tend to shrink, thus minimizing their potential energy, but conservation of energy prevents them from disappearing, and instead they oscillate. By applying the ideas of quantum mechanics to strings it is possible to deduce the different vibrational modes of strings, and that each vibrational state appears to be a different particle. The mass of each particle, and the fashion with which it can interact, are determined by the way the string vibrates — the string can vibrate in many different modes, just like a guitar string can produce different notes. The different modes, each corresponding to a different kind of particle, make up the "spectrum" of the theory.
Strings can split and combine, which would appear as particles emitting and absorbing other particles, presumably giving rise to the known interactions between particles.
String theory includes both open strings, which have two distinct endpoints, and closed strings, where the endpoints are joined to make a complete loop. The two types of string behave in slightly different ways, yielding two different spectra. For example, in most string theories, one of the closed string modes is the graviton, and one of the open string modes is the photon. Because the two ends of an open string can always meet and connect, forming a closed string, there are no string theories without closed strings.
The earliest string model — the bosonic string, which incorporated only bosons, describes — in low enough energies — a quantum gravity theory, which also includes (if open strings are incorporated as well) gauge fields such as the photon (or, more generally, any gauge theory). However, this model has problems. Most importantly, the theory has a fundamental instability, believed to result in the decay (at least partially) of space-time itself. Additionally, as the name implies, the spectrum of particles contains only bosons, particles which, like the photon, obey particular rules of behavior. Roughly speaking, bosons are the constituents of radiation, but not of matter, which is made of fermions. Investigating how a string theory may include fermions in its spectrum led to the invention of supersymmetry, a mathematical relation between bosons and fermions. String theories which include fermionic vibrations are now known as superstring theories; several different kinds have been described, but all are now thought to be different limits of M-theory.
While understanding the details of string and superstring theories requires considerable mathematical sophistication, some qualitative properties of quantum strings can be understood in a fairly intuitive fashion. For example, quantum strings have tension, much like regular strings made of twine; this tension is considered a fundamental parameter of the theory. The tension of a quantum string is closely related to its size. Consider a closed loop of string, left to move through space without external forces. Its tension will tend to contract it into a smaller and smaller loop. Classical intuition suggests that it might shrink to a single point, but this would violate Heisenberg's uncertainty principle. The characteristic size of the string loop will be a balance between the tension force, acting to make it small, and the uncertainty effect, which keeps it "stretched". Consequently, the minimum size of a string is related to the string tension.
  
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Re: An Idea
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Re: An Idea - 03-21-2008, 05:05 AM

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I don't know why you and Felix don't like my Idea that color and sound are those inner dimensions. Without those dimensions we would not have sight or sound. Can you imagine a soundless black universe. Thank God I can't though That is how Helen Keller lived her life.
Hi Pat

For my part the other aspects, 'dimensions' or 'degrees of freedom', are unexplained issues which underly the properties of matter and its movement; they may involve time. But the phenomenon of colour and sound are already explicable in the macro world in terms of the E/M spectrum and the mechanical vibration of air. Sound is certainly a manifestion of the macro world and colour is a well documented manifestation of E/M which is (reputably) well understood.

My contention is that the wound up 'dimensions' are the repository of the strings which, when in existence, make up the particles of real matter. My paradigm has some things in common with yours but on this point we differ.

regards
Felix
  
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Re: An Idea
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Re: An Idea - 03-21-2008, 07:20 AM

Hi Felix;

And yet we are able to identify all the elements (Atoms ) with a spectrometer including our one proton hydrogen. This to me suggest color is built INTO the proton as those hidden inner dimensions. When mass is converted to energy and a photon is created and passed through a prism we once again see color. The guts of our reality.

Best,

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Re: An Idea
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Re: An Idea - 03-21-2008, 04:09 PM

Hi Profpat;
I know I’ve said it before but I think it may be worth repeating again: “a photon is a measured unit of energy that is absorbed or emitted.” If you view each photon as a discreet unit, then all photons have the same quantity of energy; Planck’s constant. (E=h*frequency not E=h* wavelength) Energy comes down to how many units can pass a given point for a given increment of time. The higher the frequency the greater the energy for that increment of time. Other measures of energy would require area or volume.

If you look at the way string theory is evolving, you will notice that a particle is no longer the vibrating string but the swollen string that forms a vibrating spinning spherical membrane. (M-theory) In my concept a particle is a spinning vibrating unit of FS in a state of symmetry. (symmetry meaning single frequency of vibration beyond the THz range) My concept is also based on existing empirical data; string theory is still a brain fart.

I’m pleased that you’re honored to have me on your thread but I’m not sure of the purpose of such flattery.

BTW: I used to design spectrometers: mass, X-Ray, gas, and optical spectrometers; also several custom radiometers.



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Re: An Idea
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Re: An Idea - 03-21-2008, 09:34 PM

Hi David;

The reason why I'm honored is that you are one of the "true" scientist that we have at the forum. Though I guess I'm honored by any of the members who visit my thread.

I have been accused of having shit for brains, so maybe that gives me brain farts, but I still like my one dimensional planck length strings.

I don't keep up on the string theory with any degree of scholarly activity, but the latest I heard had to do with F theory which had 8 inner dimensions instead of the 7 in M theory. The 8th dimension being the null set. This would correspond to my 7 dimensions in the proton and 8 dimensions in the neutron.

I haven't heard about fat strings becoming spheres.
Would those spheres make up the quarks? Or is that something completely different?

Best to you,

Pat
  
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