[Sentient marine]

Originally Posted by dipayankar

Couple of observations Sentient..

From what you say, it implies gravity is not an universal force, because at quantum level it does not exist (per se). Also is gravity only a perception to us? What about the pull the comets and other planets feel towards the sun?? If it is because of the curvature of spacetime, I believe comets do not have that much of mass to create that much of a curvature.

Also if gravity was because of the curvature, then our moon would have rolled over to the sun....

Awaiting your reply

It does make it hard describing what the mainstream physics line is and then my own brand so this post just the mainstream view.

Correct according to mainstream science gravity is too weak to be a universal force. That is why the separation of science into branches of general and special relativity and quantum mechanics and although not mainstream the science branch of electric and plasma universe cosmology. Each branch of science is correct within the boundaries that science application applies to.

The orbit of bodies around the sun is pictured as if the planets were following a groove in a rubber sheet and keeping orbit because they are revolving around the sun just fast enough to maintain an approximate distance. Really close to the sun in fact out to almost the orbit of Mercury the dip is bigger and is known as the gravity well of the sun. That works in addition to normal pull. So a Mercury at it closest point just clips that extra dip in the rubber sheet of space advances or bends its orbit more forward, only by an amount of 42 arc seconds. Under Newtonian gravity the effect should only be an advance of about 18 arc seconds.

A comet passing closer to the sun dips deeper and so follows a much tighter curve around the sun. On its way out the normal Newtonian gravity applies beyond the orbit of Mercury. That is why it may be years or hundreds of years before a comet returns ... the most famous of regular comets is Halley's comet which comes around about every 86 years.

The moon is bound to the earth but not in a gravity well so we rotate around the sun paired and the earth being larger has the moon in normal gravity lock meaning the same side is always facing the earth. For most purposes the earth - moon system can be considered a paired planet system and is indeed the most studied system in the solar system.

That is the mainstream point description as best I can manage.

[Sentient marine]

Originally Posted by dipayankar

Couple of observations Sentient..

From what you say, it implies gravity is not an universal force, because at quantum level it does not exist (per se). Also is gravity only a perception to us? What about the pull the comets and other planets feel towards the sun?? If it is because of the curvature of spacetime, I believe comets do not have that much of mass to create that much of a curvature.

Also if gravity was because of the curvature, then our moon would have rolled over to the sun....

Awaiting your reply

It is best I separate my idea of gravity density into a separate post. For gravity density to work it needs three separate shapes like a tornado.

If one was to think of gravity as an immensely powerful force ... as powerful as the nuclear strong force then the only way that could work is if gravity acted only on the boundary of the proton holding it together. The experiment where a feather and a hammer were dropped on the moon and fell at the same rate is confirmation that gravity works on protons and neutrons ... that is matter at the atomic level.

Using this analogy if gravity density worked on masses as a whole say a whole body it would mean instant squashing.

The weak force appears to only apply after the stable element of iron. So if the weak force is a lifting force and much weaker than the strong force it needs to act as a lifting force to pull matter beyond stability and eventually prevent elements above well normally uranium as a natural element forming.

So the tornado. We do not think much about air pressure ... it doesn't restrict our movement until we move fast enough to feel the wind. So air pressure is a stationary force. The match up is the strong force. Above a large enough storm system a cell of low pressure can form ... a lifting force intensifying or controlling the tornado but it is not a moving force either just a reduction in pressure causing updraft the match up for this is the weak force.

The shape and flow of gravity density is in the electromagnetic force. In space if a tornado was long enough the lift (which is the non moving force) would cause the flow of air in one direction for as long as that tornado travelled. The movement upwards is the electric component. The rotation of the tornado is the magnetic component. When a system moves through space in relation to the very uniform density of space the at certain speeds of being pulled through space light from surrounding objects seem flatter.

Finally if the proton is the boundary of matter and I mean edge of the universe here ... then it gives all the protons and neutrons mass by being wormholes to the outer or inner (same thing in connected 4 dimensional space) universe. When we experience inertia or resist momentum it is because of the movement around the inner edge of the universe.

Since the boundary is at the edge of matter (the proton and neutron) the experiment by Michelson and Morley failed because they measured between matter and not the matter receiving the light itself.

I hope that separates it and explains it a bit better. The rubber sheet analogy still works but it is the very slight difference between the rotation through a magnetic gravity component only and the inward pull at right angles to the electric component of gravity ... much like the slightly greater inward pull of pressure within the tornado.

The hard bit is that it requires six outer structural dimensions or like quantum six inner dimensions that form a loop ... it means the universe we are in is very dynamic.

[dipayankar]

You did manage very well I must say. Just one small clarification. Why does the comet with such a small mass dip more? Or is it that near the sun the spacetime fabric becomes less denser????

Originally Posted by Sentient marine

It does make it hard describing what the mainstream physics line is and then my own brand so this post just the mainstream view.

Correct according to mainstream science gravity is too weak to be a universal force. That is why the separation of science into branches of general and special relativity and quantum mechanics and although not mainstream the science branch of electric and plasma universe cosmology. Each branch of science is correct within the boundaries that science application applies to.

The orbit of bodies around the sun is pictured as if the planets were following a groove in a rubber sheet and keeping orbit because they are revolving around the sun just fast enough to maintain an approximate distance. Really close to the sun in fact out to almost the orbit of Mercury the dip is bigger and is known as the gravity well of the sun. That works in addition to normal pull. So a Mercury at it closest point just clips that extra dip in the rubber sheet of space advances or bends its orbit more forward, only by an amount of 42 arc seconds. Under Newtonian gravity the effect should only be an advance of about 18 arc seconds.

A comet passing closer to the sun dips deeper and so follows a much tighter curve around the sun. On its way out the normal Newtonian gravity applies beyond the orbit of Mercury. That is why it may be years or hundreds of years before a comet returns ... the most famous of regular comets is Halley's comet which comes around about every 86 years.

The moon is bound to the earth but not in a gravity well so we rotate around the sun paired and the earth being larger has the moon in normal gravity lock meaning the same side is always facing the earth. For most purposes the earth - moon system can be considered a paired planet system and is indeed the most studied system in the solar system.

That is the mainstream point description as best I can manage.

[Sentient marine]

Originally Posted by dipayankar

You did manage very well I must say. Just one small clarification. Why does the comet with such a small mass dip more? Or is it that near the sun the spacetime fabric becomes less denser????

Einstein was a genius on so many accounts because he took some really strange ideas about shape and found a way to describe them to make it so much easier for the rest of us. When the comet gets within the orbit of Mercury the gravity between it and the sun becomes greater.

It is the normal Newtonian gravity plus the addition of the Einstein gravity due to space time curvature. Have you ever rolled a marble across the floor and watched it change direction as it crosses a dip in the surface? Now that is the effect although there is not a visible hole or dip as such in space so the mainstream science view may be space gets bent and causes whatever passing through it to follow that bend.

With bending of spacetime any object that passes through it will bend its path a bit depending on its speed (velocity). Even light bends a bit with Einstein predicting that people should be able to test the idea during an eclipse. From Wikipedia this extract is more to the bottom of the page.

In 1919, the observation of a total solar eclipse helped to confirm Einstein's theory of general relativity. By comparing the apparent distance between two stars, with and without the Sun between them

[dipayankar]

What has Mercury's gravity got to do with the gravity between the comet and the sun??

Originally Posted by Sentient marine

Einstein was a genius on so many accounts because he took some really strange ideas about shape and found a way to describe them to make it so much easier for the rest of us. When the comet gets within the orbit of Mercury the gravity between it and the sun becomes greater.

It is the normal Newtonian gravity plus the addition of the Einstein gravity due to space time curvature. Have you ever rolled a marble across the floor and watched it change direction as it crosses a dip in the surface? Now that is the effect although there is not a visible hole or dip as such in space so the mainstream science view may be space gets bent and causes whatever passing through it to follow that bend.

With bending of spacetime any object that passes through it will bend its path a bit depending on its speed (velocity). Even light bends a bit with Einstein predicting that people should be able to test the idea during an eclipse. From Wikipedia this extract is more to the bottom of the page.

[Sentient marine]

Sorry not Mercury.

The sun has a gravity well in the fabric of space that extends to almost the orbit of Mercury. The planet does not affect the path of a comet (except if they collide )

Mercury as a planet actually just falls into the gravity well of the sun at the closest part of its orbit, the perihelion.

So all the other planets obey the Newtonian inverse squared rule for gravity. There are some unexplained effects like the pioneer anomaly beyond the orbit of Neptune but until the next probe gets out that far in the next few years we will just have to guess at what it will tell us, cheers

[dipayankar]

So in effect the comet actually falls into the well and comes out much like a daredevil motorcycle rider in the well of death act... I hope I am making myself clear...

Originally Posted by Sentient marine

Sorry not Mercury.

The sun has a gravity well in the fabric of space that extends to almost the orbit of Mercury. The planet does not affect the path of a comet (except if they collide )

Mercury as a planet actually just falls into the gravity well of the sun at the closest part of its orbit, the perihelion.

So all the other planets obey the Newtonian inverse squared rule for gravity. There are some unexplained effects like the pioneer anomaly beyond the orbit of Neptune but until the next probe gets out that far in the next few years we will just have to guess at what it will tell us, cheers

[Sentient marine]

Originally Posted by dipayankar

So in effect the comet actually falls into the well and comes out much like a daredevil motorcycle rider in the well of death act... I hope I am making myself clear...

Yes that is a very good description. I must admit I hadn't seen the motorcycle act so I checked it on Google here is the video I found and it is a very practical way to show it.

Thank you dipayankar

[dipayankar]

Now I get it... so in space time there are these numerous grooves that keep things in place. But how come gavity keeps us on the planet???

Originally Posted by Sentient marine

Yes that is a very good description. I must admit I hadn't seen the motorcycle act so I checked it on Google here is the video I found and it is a very practical way to show it.

Thank you dipayankar

[N0B0DY]

No one in the world knows more about gravity than our RascalPuff imo, Dip. I think it might have something to do with spatial expansion within matter - a.k.a. massive expansion.