[Sentient marine]

It is strange, after these last two posts our world community is more fascinated by the predictions of Nostradamus and buying the books that tell of the end of civilization rather than actually trying to look at why it could happen.

Don't you find that just absolutely amazing.

Events can be foretold 2000 years back in the past. The greatest prophetic mind in the last 600 years reconfirms that this is what is going to happen. He also says, well both sources also say we have free will and can choose not to do stupid things or act badly.

And yet here we are on the brink of firing up the single most devastatingly powerful machine ever built and not an ounce of caution or public interest or awareness.

Einstein was noted for commenting on the stupidity of the human race. I think he was being kind, I can't believe how mind bogglingly stupid it is to do the things we plan at this time.

I pray that a few individuals may just take some precautions even if it is only to take a well deserved holiday. Laughter is uncomfortable but normally it wont kill you.

[RascalPuff]

Originally Posted by Sentient marine It is strange, after these last two posts our world community is more fascinated by the predictions of Nostradamus and buying the books that tell of the end of civilization rather than actually trying to look at why it could happen. Don't you find that just absolutely amazing. Events can be foretold 2000 years back in the past. The greatest prophetic mind in the last 600 years reconfirms that this is what is going to happen. He also says, well both sources also say we have free will and can choose not to do stupid things or act badly. And yet here we are on the brink of firing up the single most devastatingly powerful machine ever built and not an ounce of caution or public interest or awareness. Einstein was noted for commenting on the stupidity of the human race. I think he was being kind, I can't believe how mind bogglingly stupid it is to do the things we plan at this time. I pray that a few individuals may just take some precautions even if it is only to take a well deserved holiday. Laughter is uncomfortable but normally it wont kill you.

_________________________

Dear Sentient Marine:
It is indeed interesting isn't it?

'We' had the intelligence to build a device, that, for all we knew, when we pushed the detonate button on the first atomic bomb, all material substance on the planet - the planet en toto - would go fissile in the chain reaction that was designed to occur in the bomb components.... We built that weapon, installed that button, and: we pushed it...

Einstein has been criticized considerably for his commentaries on human stupidity, but then, he certainly had his reasons. The irony that The Pacifists work 'inspired' The Bomb, is inescapable of course.

It is true that the Nazis were working on the bomb also, and that we were in a race with them to design it.... Still, we built a devise that might literally destroy the world in one fell fissile swoop, we installed a detonation button, and we did forthwith push it.

Letting the Nazis do it, or ourselves having done it.......
Either way, its a mighty soberin' thought...

Best regards,
- RP

[Sentient marine]

Very sobering thought indeed thank you RascallPuff.

My fears of this next experiment to be the first to create a micro black hole at least don't hold the same level of fear for me as it did just six months ago.

I have enjoyed a depth of thought seldom found anywhere else but here on the forums. Especially on mkirkpatrick's discussion on consciousness. The observations I make are just that, a logical (to me) step by step analysis from as many sources as I can read.

Unfortunately my mind races much faster than my typing and being past forty I do tend to forget bits. I believe we explore our world much like children would, hopefully not making too many mistakes but at least learning from those that do happen.

It is a pity the Wiki article didn't describe the arc of the blue tube of light because if it had formed and 'pointed' at the one spot while the top of the tube appeared to drag rapidly across the sky then my string theory would have more substance.

I hope I am wrong about CERN as I feel that it links with the Nostradamus predictions exceptionally strongly. Given the state our world is in and the timing it could hardly be much worse. Just about all that I have written is now on forums as I believe if ideas are gifted to a person then it is the responsibility of that individual to share and get them evaluated.

Given that Nostradamus spoke of the future I am going to spend a bit of time looking at that. One of the most distant or future predictions he made was that we would meet an intelligent yet angry race in 4000 years who would travel into our past to set our destruction.

Just looking at Star Trek showed how easy that would be. There was an episode involving a rift in time and space. It is a bit far out I know but one of them Picard or 'Q' put his hand in the primordial goo that was the start of life. Just the bacteria from a hand could have started a whole new time-line of a different life.

Some time before the next 4000 years we will need to evaluate the sense of having one uninterrupted chain of all life from goo to all known organisms. I don't propose to know how to do it but if life could be conceived outside the time-line so that it had multiple entry points and information too for that matter then all that has been learned and progressed to a point can not be destroyed.

In a war and I am assuming that is what this future scenario is alluding to the continuity of the supply line is of utmost importance. So that means build a second or third supply line or devise one that is self perpetuating and so uninterruptible at any point. The good thing here is that we really do have time on our side.

Then if all effects travel in a time medium as they would need to given that Nostradamus predicted that this is possible what would one do to discourage such attacks.

First it would not be aggressive. If we were to be hostile then it would benefit an attacker to chance our destruction for self improvement. Better still if our help is just that, genuine real help. That way if they decided to do away with us at some point all the good things given would also go. Any group that didn't understand or appreciate that would be the sole recipients of their own dreadful actions. They would damage themselves by their own actions and not due to our unwanted meddling.

I have been around people all my life and as peace loving and as understanding as I can be I really do find some people and groups of people extremely frustrating. It is only a human reaction but one I could both believe and understand of any other thinking species.

Anyway that is my latest little rant. I play ideas back and forth as a game I suppose until I get to a picture of best fit. Rather than trying to play at knowing anything I believe the collective benefit of all the creative minds in existence and try to see where the links are. That way I am not prejudiced by my own limitations but can tap into the creative heart of everything as anybody else can too.

I believe in prayer and I pray that I am wrong about CERN.

[Sentient marine]

The thing about a model is to try to figure out what it may contribute to overall knowledge both positive and negatively. I do see potential for this model but with obvious pitfalls too.

One thing about proving that time and space has an underlying density that is accessible is the use to which it might serve. As such one can only be impartial although cautious of human nature.

Purpose one for instance is that as a medium it could serve to transmit a vibration. If one looks at something like tubular bells or resonance in a tube that could be used at the microscopic level to shake a virus. Ebola has a tubular structure and the thing about micro structure is that it tends towards incredible strength.

Take the recent discovery of 50 atoms width of the soft metal gold being used to patch a hole also in a micro structure. It was far more rigid than expected. Rigidity in a metal is a factor in resonance. If that rigidity comes at a price of say being brittle like glass then we have a medical tool provided the treatment is not also life destroying to the patient.

On a larger scale the nemesis of man is the mosquito, also a tube relying vector. A larger macro field would need to be generated. This is a larger and thus more dangerous application that would be hopefully contained in an area effect. It means dipping into the 'negative' as Tesla did when he created a differential to charge his beam technology using a vacuum and dessicated compressed air.

The downside of both of these is that same technology could be weaponized which is unfortunately so often the way of new innovations. Like the MAD model of mutually assured destruction by posting equally in a public forum it can be discussed for its merit or not.

Why take such a risk, do I really trust humans wont just find the allure of new weapons to attractive, no. I can not be the arbiter just a proponent hoping that good sense will prevail, failing that for every measure there is a counter measure and for that a counter counter measure and so on.

History has not recorded advances in human thinking in a nice way. Perhaps once, just this once if there is merit it can be embraced peacefully. Or we can wait and see if it comes along and if its use by one side only is of greater or lesser cost.

One way or another if an application is in the wings the logic is that it will find its way into use eventually. That saying "for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health" technology is a marriage and over the years there have been some fantastic marriages. If not then what is the point.

I am hoping for medical advances, for propulsion technology, better understanding of the universe we live in, a way of defining good living in a clean and healthy environment and most importantly a legacy worthy of future generations, that is what I am hoping for.

[Sentient marine]

Quote by Albert Einstein "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."

Let's start simply:- force and flow.
When describing the pressure on the wall of a dam the unit measure is weight of water. The wall of the dam resists the force and flow of the river.

Symmetry the smallest 'size' Planck unit is Planck time 10^-44.
The diameter of a proton is the fundamental stable unit of matter. It is an equal number of orders of magnitude down to Planck time and up to the size of the universe.

Planck time is the size of the interval for light to travel a chronon.
That measure is a vector having distance and time, flow and force.
In the quantum realm the chronon is seen as a measure of mass.
The mass of a chronon is an illusion OOM 21 greater than its force and flow.

The name of that unit of energy which describes the fundamental unit of quantum force and flow is the EEP from a gentleman known on this forum as Bogie, he is my quantum mechanics professor.

Mass does not exist. This is an energy universe.

Due to the shape of space in structural dimensions a study I undertook led in the early stages by a gentleman on another forum my general relativity teacher. The rest I twisted together. The universe is closed it is an energy universe and infinity while an interesting mathematical concept is a non possible fiction of the human imagination.

The reality of existing in an energy universe is that until the lines of time are altered the illusion of reality exists. Due to the times that Albert Einstein lived in it would not have been prudent to disclose this knowledge that he surely discovered to humanity. Humanity is still unprepared to handle this knowledge but due to the nature of energy loss experiments this needs to now be disclosed.

We live on a little blue dot a lifeboat adrift in the vast sea of the universe and are preparing soon to hammer more energy into the base of our life support system than it has ever been hit with since the beginning. This is inadvisable.

This and everything else, this reality will persist for only as long as you allow it to support you. This is the matrix and a good one at that and for all intensive purposes it is real. It does look like the flying spaghetti monster among other things but more importantly the super massive black holes at the centre of galaxies do not exert any gravity on the galaxy as the are just the continuation of the wormhole we exist in or will exit from if we break it.

The matrix is real and this is it.

[Sentient marine]

It is real in that it feels real, very real. Your thoughts and what define you make you real. What it means is we have access to ways to damage ourselves worse than we could imagine.

I was asked on another forum if I thought Einstein had taken this knowledge to his grave and in the most genuine way possible I believe if he did it was because we were not prepared to know the truth wisely then and nor are we now. If he did then it is such a credit to him that he knew that we as children are just not ready to be trusted as a group until we learn to be caring of others and respecting God with Whom he had such brilliant quotes.

I am saying Einstein was so far ahead of all of us that he knew what we would do to ourselves if we did know how it all worked. If it wasn't so clear that we are about to poke holes in what we have got I would like to think that I might have kept my mouth shut too.

[Sentient marine]

As I said the diameter of the proton is most significant.

From there the scale up and down are equal so you could think of it as being in the middle. However since quantum particles are measured as being outside the proton and smaller and our world as being outside and larger it is also conceivable that it could be defined as the edge.

Much of what I write is based on the idea of we are not central to the universe. For instance astronomy started with us at the centre and everything revolved around us. Since that time there have been small steps where we find we are not so central, fairly standard so far.

Our latest centricity notion is that our galaxy is shaped as a disk because it looks like a disc. However if it were possible that we were travelling at near light percentage with all the rest of co-moving space the shape of what we see could be deceptive.

Next point, quantum. We use a set of spatial dimensions with a time co-ordinate to describe quantum. Take some thing much simpler than the universe, the human body. The same dimensions could be used to define a red blood corpuscle in a human body. From the body down the red corpuscle is a dot perspective (a disc shape actually). Now going up from the view of the red corpuscle 'it' sees the body as firstly its similar disc shaped neighbours. Further out it sees capillaries with red blood corpuscles then just the shape of arteries and veins. PIPES TUBES FILAMENTS!!!

Now take the analogy of red blood corpuscle as very spongy much more-so than it is. The analogy is the vast emptiness in atoms. A model of an atom with a proton the size of an orange and the electron dot size . in a cloud anywhere within a mile radius. Lots of empty space and very squashable. Back to the body as blood pressure rises the red corpuscle squashes and 'sees' the body appear to expand rapidly from its perspective although the overall size of the whole body has barely changed.

That is the view point I am trying to convey. Things are not always as they seem and we are by no means central to the universe but more likely a galactic speck rapidly travelling rapidly through it.

Major statement there is no gravity associated with the super massive 'worm' hole at the centre of the galaxy, that is just an optical effect. The 'proof' if you like is the sameness of galactic orbit beyond the end of the bar seen at the centre of the galaxy. The very slight attraction back to our sun of objects leaving our system is the very minor part of gravity attraction as we are paired to the other arm of the spiral. This would be scaled down to the equivalent of the electromagnetic force as compared to the full strong nuclear force that we know of, thus the 'Pioneer Effect'.

I could go into the probabilities of human nature if this was the case and the loss of information paradox and terrible human degeneration if we used such knowledge. Still if it comes to attributing levels of stupidity to what groups of frightened human beings are capable of ... there really is no upper limit.

[Sentient marine]

Perhaps I should address the curious oddity that is the galaxy.

For one the most active star forming regions are nearest the supposedly biggest gravitational well in the galaxy. I would have thought if it were a gravity well then it would have cleared much of the light material for star formation and that due to its size would also be in the oldest least populated part of the galaxy.

Second with the star formation that is so profusely coming out of the gravity well vicinity they are in extraordinary symmetrical lines. I would have thought there should be a mechanism to drive such line formation, After a random formation of stars coming out of that zone they should spread very quickly become a homogeneous mix. But no every barred spiral has distinct arms (I may have a suspicious mind but that is highly indicative of a mechanism to me).

Third the rotations are wrong, there is no other word for it, just wrong. OK as bodies orbit further out they take longer to orbit except in galaxies where they all stay the same. Variation in orbit would also cause better mixing and lead to a non distinct even structure.

Fourthly the star forming regions are also being observed at the very edges of the galaxies. If it was coming out from the centre the spread of dust over such a much wider circumference should have thinned it out. Also if it is thick enough to be star forming on the edges then why not in the middle?

Finally (to this post anyway) by what mechanism do we know that we are not co-moving in space due to the initial forces that formed the universe. Special relativity cannot be assumed to have this point as not moving as a barrier to co-moving (why not? because it is patently unfair that's why, how do I compete with a system where every body tells a different time on each others watch and can park longer cars in garages built too short. True it would save on a heck of a lot of congestion if it could ever be proven to work). It is hard to argue against such a perfect system where there is a mathematical correction for each item that wont fit the pattern.

[Sentient marine]

Originally Posted by Bogie Good job on that centricity post. I appreciate your perspective and can see similarities to my thinking. You are bolder than I am. I often imply things that you seem comfortable coming right out and saying . Consider this. Instead of the human body being less complicated than the universe, it could be seen as more complicated. The living animation of the stuff of the universe may be the "highest use" of that stuff, much like maybe expensive beach front condos are the highest use of ocean front property

I have been so fortunate to find you Bogie on this forum and your link to this forum. Your style of thinking is truly inspirational. I will address the human body here because this forum does consider the spiritual and yes the human body with all that it is and could be will take longer to know than the universe. So again thank you Bogie,

So much of this has been inspired by you and I just wish I was braver. The problem I have is that we are now less than six months from the most powerful test of gravity yet devised. In all fairness even mainstream science can not genuinely claim to understand gravity yet.

While I should be comfortable with the 'concept' of negligible risk, quite honestly it leaves me feeling cold. As a guide we will use more power on a pair of particles than was used at the beginning of the universe. Just using this concept gives at least seven possibilities:-
1. We might discover nothing
2. The fireball may grow enormous before fading out
3. Forming a worm hole to an anti-matter stream could electrically charge the earth
4. A worm hole may pull the planet from its orbit and or rotation
5. Science could be right and we get a propulsion engine (a really big one)
6. A worm hole formed might collapse the earth
7. At least if it forms a black hole they are survivable for the interim.

I am a quiet person desperately feeling the need to scream as politely and yet loudly as I can that we just don't know enough yet to be taking such a huge hammer to the base of the only lifeboat that so many of us are in.

[Sentient marine]

I have skipped a few posts on the other forum to restart here:-

I have been looking at the diameter of the proton as being the midpoint. Equally since one can say inside or outside the shell of a proton as being a boundary point formed at some later stage to balance the energy distribution of the universe.

That in itself gives rise to a number of possibilities and not the least being there is no direct need for the other side of the boundary to have any mirror effect or proximity to the next proton on our side although it might.

So with all the high energy experimentation going on the most dangerous place would be a low end energy receiving point. Happy thoughts, happy thoughts, happy thoughts

If a flow can be detected and indeed is stable then that at least could be a benefit. What I would look for is a very good circuit breaker. What I am saying in essence is if there is a low energy point made then an understanding of what may flow through from a high point is a reasonable starting position.

Signs would obviously be spontaneous combustion within the zone but also perhaps to areas linked to or nearby surroundings. Until some of these experiments actually produce the results this is only guesswork but even at that the possibilities need to be included with the contingency plans.

How many wasted safety railings have been installed without ever being used and how many could have saved lives if they had been thought about?

I looked at some of the really hard questions, this is the worst:-

When to end the world?
When is the best time to end the world?

Answer:- as soon as it is possible without involving oneself or anyone else either for that matter. So why do we experiment so close to the edge of power and still claim not to fully understand what we are looking for?

You know the really great thing about having a totally disbelieved alternate theory is that it also allows one to come up with really great disbelieved conspiracies that haven't happened yet. However, that shouldn't in any way prevent one from writing them down.

Lets look at the world's first scientist, a farmer messing about with his wife's (presumably his wife, one conspiracy at a time please) kitchen equipment. The item in question a small metal ball with little holes on the bottom and a hollow metal tube sticking out the top. While playing he notices that if he holds his thumb over the tube it stops the water flowing in. Normally one places the ball into the water gently so as not to stir up the mud and the little holes stop many of the insects getting in with the water.

To get the water up the thumb closes the hole and the water in the ball stays in until the thumb is lifted from the hole. In this manner water is transferred to a jug or amphora. He gets to thinking as men with time to waste do and in no hurry to head back to which ever wife it was thinks there must be something in the ball that stops the water getting in if I keep my thumb on the hole. He discovered air, well air pressure actually. Having passed wind he knew what was said about that as up until then all smells and bird flight was thought to be carried on the wind. But he had been nagged about that on even the calmest of days and then the birds without a hint of a breeze had not fallen from the sky either.

He became a scientist and told others of his thoughts and showed the men the kitchen equipment. And in unison they did groan loudly thinking of all the times their wives had sent them for water. After a while it got through and thus the idea that although they couldn't see the stuff without wind or by nicking the kitchen gear the air was still there.

So what does this have to do with ending the world? Getting to that. By applying the same simple reasoning, if something is measurable then something is there. Then came the concept of zero and messed it up right and proper. It goes like this, three apples are on the table and there are three children who each take an apple and eat it. So how many apples are there on the table, zero? No, well there are no apples but there is not zero on the table, there is the air or grubby finger marks from the children where the apples were but there most certainly is not zero, just no apples.

And so in the most empty vacuum is there zero, again no as there is such a thing as zero point energy, awful word but had to use it. In every position there is this incredible energy and so there is something there.

So based on an idea that if you look down the centre of a slinky spring it will disappear to a position of perspective, and that is without moving. Now add rapid movement and the slinky appears flatter. But I want to know about ending the world. Ah good, oh yes that. Well at some point in the very near future it is most convenient for all the changes caused by reckless and irresponsible time travellers to be disconnected from the future in order to get a bit of stability back in the long run. On a continuous stream of time all possibilities or known future itterations of an event cause total havoc down the line of time.

What better way to put an end to all that and blow a thumpin' great hole in the middle of it. All the itterations of existence going forward get chopped off at the snipping of the line of stars in the galaxy but until the explosion catches up to the future it carries on nicely and can plan to be well away without any inconvenience. Slight problem, just as the anomaly can not form until the real actual point time it originates from stops it from allowing any and all sorts of mixed up futures through. Though, from a certain point after the damage is caused the itterations start flowing through again as the planet has been destroyed for this immediate future but beyond the damage point the people keep arriving and the mess continues on a badly damaged and very confused world. Like I said not our problem soon

The one certainty worth banking on in this known universe is the greed and stupidity of human kind and the extent of the damage they will do to others if it showed the slightest promise of promoting a few selfish interests. The good news for us is that we wont see it and the bad news for a sufficiently advanced future is we will still be messing it up long after we are gone. No it wont be the kick start to the next universe just cutting the string of stars to the galaxy that does it in for us