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12-28-2007, 02:43 PM
Re: The Three Theory

I guess only two scenarios are possible. One where the circuit is open (electron flow) and where the circuit is closed (no electron flow). If we say neutral, then we can derive it in terms of either open or a closed circuit.. sorry to interupt your thoughts TINA..


[quote=Tina;43399]
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Originally Posted by rybot View Post

Plasma Universe is just an extension oF THREENESS on cosmic scale.

Here is equation for lightswitch example

Let C = Circuit (electron flow)

C (POSITIVE) = Circuit
- C (NEGATIVE) = No Circuit
-(E) ^ - (-E) (NEUTRAL)

This last line is expressing: (when light is off) it is not the case that there is an electron flow in opertion but it is not the case that there is not electron flow in operation . The electron flow is simply temporarily interupted or open.
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12-28-2007, 03:11 PM
Re: The Three Theory

Is it possible to sneak in the positron somewhere? The on would be both positive and negative, and the off would be neutral.

http://www2.slac.stanford.edu/vvc/theory/feynman.html
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12-28-2007, 03:36 PM
Re: The Three Theory

A positron?? Probably, but when it is anilated by the electron woudnt we be seeing flashes???

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Originally Posted by N0B0DY View Post
Is it possible to sneak in the positron somewhere? The on would be both positive and negative, and the off would be neutral.

http://www2.slac.stanford.edu/vvc/theory/feynman.html
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12-28-2007, 07:11 PM
Re: The Three Theory

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I have another concern about threeness which involves simple binary action or non-action( passive )that may or may not have been covered here as the binary enumerations.

I think Tina has a post regarding;

+ aka +1( e.g. postive charge proton )

- aka -1( e.g. negative charge electron )

and 0 aka neutral( chargeless neutron grey area )

My concern is to specific set of circumstances( light switch ) wherein there is *on*( ergo electrons flow ) and *off*( ergo no electron flow ).

There is no grey area between those two that I'm aware of.

Regarding the latter there is only one grey area of consideration in that circumstance and that is of the uncertainty of mind, as to whether the electrons are, or, are not flowing through the switch.

If there is no light bulb( or meter ) to tell us if the electrons are flowing through the switch --or not-- then we need to make a physical observation, by installing light bulb meter whatever.

So we have the physical flow( active ) or no flow( passive ) and then metaphysial abstraction uncertatinty( grey area ) of mind.

Rybo
Rybot,

According to me, your answer is completely correct. Yet I would have to add that the context in which your answer is totally correct was also dictated by you. You write that your concern is to the specific set of circumstances (light switch) wherein there is *on* (ergo electrons flow) and *off* (ergo no electron flow). It is correct that there is no gray area between those two. However, the toe is not limited to just electrical charge or physical flow, the toe is limited in one sense only: it must encompass everything.

Your delivery is nevertheless fundamental and must be placed central in the toe, but since the toe is not limited to a light switch there must then indeed be a neutral position next to the on and the off positions. In nature, we find electrical charge, but we do not find every charge lining up behind a light switch, and we can find more than just electrical charge.

I do not know if you guys are all fed up with my repetitious words, but I place the basic set of positions on a globe: there are only two positions that are grounded: North (Northpole) and South (Southpole). However, other positions/directions are available and necessary to make the picture more complete: East and West. Any place on earth (except North and South poles) can become East or West depending on the point of perspective. In that sense a location on this globe is always neutral in regards to East and West (except for the North and the South pole), while each of the North-South locations are not neutral; each of them are rather and completely specific.

This means, according to me, Rybot, that even the neutral position as the third position is correct but in itself not specific enough; we need a fourth position to go together with the third position to deliver the completed neutral position, but we have to accept that there is no grounded natural distinction for this option. We are able to make the specific East-West distinctions on a map ourselves only because mankind agreed to let the largest ruler of the world of those days (Britain) draw a specific East-West line in the sand at Greenwich. So, threeness is indeed correct, but not as accurate as fourness. And if you know my pyramidal theory, there is also the option to move towards claiming fiveness as the basic set of positions.

Fiveness, because the global position system is not complete yet: there are two more directions that are often forgotten but quite important. They are the inward and the outward direction. The outward direction can be considered an infinite direction — shoot a rocket away from earth and if it doesn't hit anything it can go on forever. The inward direction can only be considered finite — even the largest object in our universe has in the inward direction a finite quality. Okay, that adds up to more than five (though the finite direction is really not that much in the large scheme of things), so you may call it sixness as well — be my guest.

Just to be complete here: the global set of positions comes back in the solar systematic set of positions, but it differs somewhat, just like the galactic systematic set of positions is similar but different yet once again. Same goes for the universe, similar, but different yet once again.

P.S. Fascinating videos, Tina.
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12-28-2007, 09:20 PM
Re: The Three Theory

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Rybot,

According to me, your answer is completely correct..... It is correct that there is no gray area between those two.

This means... Rybot, that even the neutral position as the third position is correct but in itself not specific enough; we need a fourth position to go together with the third position to deliver the completed neutral position, but we have to accept that there is no grounded natural distinction for this option. P.S. Fascinating videos, Tina.
Firstly Fredrick I think Thirdness is the fundamental structure and anything else is a thirdness position within that structure..thirdness subsets might be the word ...and the subsets are infinite...but always describable in the threeness dynamic (we are inventing new words)

As for the on/off switch debate Protheory gets closer to the truth of a situation than the basic yes/no on/off right/wrong answers.

The electron Flow locked into a circuit does not vanish as is implied by "no circuit flow/off" because electrons WOULD flow if they could and indeed are ready to flow when circuit is is restored by "ON Switch" when Electrons are no longer inhibited. Electron flow exists/does not exist is too black and white and in circuits we cannot definatively say that "FLOW DOES NOT EXIST" it is just inhibited
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12-28-2007, 10:04 PM
Re: The Three Theory

[quote=Tina;43399]
Quote:
Originally Posted by rybot View Post
Plasma Universe is just an extension oF THREENESS on cosmic scale.
Here is equation for lightswitch example
Let C = Circuit (electron flow)
C (POSITIVE) = Circuit
- C (NEGATIVE) = No Circuit
-(E) ^ - (-E) (NEUTRAL)
This last line is expressing: (when light is off) it is not the case that there is an electron flow in opertion but it is not the case that there is not electron flow in operation . The electron flow is simply temporarily interupted or open.
[COLOR="rgb(255, 140, 0)"]Tina, I respectfully dissagree with your assessment that -C( negative ) = no ciricuit" and the weird looking formulae -(E) ^ -(E) ( neutral ) in that both of these are indeed the same "no ciricut".

"No ciricut" because the the contact provided by switch is off( no contact ) ergo no contact means there is "no circuit" i.e. the electrons are not flowing to the light bullb, if also, not to any 'ground'.

I appreciate you attempts/efforts to give a viable/satisfcatory explanation of a physical threeness in regards to the light switch scenario I laid out.

That I do not agree may be my inability to understand your concepts as explained. I dunno.

Rybo
[/color]
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12-28-2007, 10:24 PM
Re: The Three Theory

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The electron Flow locked into a circuit does not vanish as is implied by "no circuit flow/off" because electrons WOULD flow if they could and indeed are ready to flow when circuit is is restored by "ON Switch" when Electrons are no longer inhibited. Electron flow exists/does not exist is too black and white and in circuits we cannot definatively say that "FLOW DOES NOT EXIST" it is just inhibited
Tina, we can "definitively" say that, there are *no* electrons flowing to the light fixture, if, there is working light bulb in the fixture or if we have some metering instrument likened to a light bulb.

This is definitetively a black-white, on-off active-passive set of circumstances that I have laid out.

There is no physical grey area here, except that of the metaphysical uncertainty of mind, i.e.when there is ;

1) light switch is working and is on but there is no working light bulb or meter at light fixture, to make the flow of electrons active

2) light switch is working and on and there is a working light bulb or meter but the light or meter still does not come on

3) light switch is on but uncertainty if it another break is casuing a working light or working instrument to not register

Rybo

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12-29-2007, 12:16 AM
Re: The Three Theory

[quote=rybot;43429]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tina View Post

[COLOR="rgb(255, 140, 0)"]Tina, I respectfully dissagree with your assessment that -C( negative ) = no ciricuit" and the weird looking formulae : -(E) ^ -(-E)
( neutral ) in that both of these are indeed the same "no ciricut".

"No ciricut" .

That I do not agree may be my inability to understand your concepts as explained. I dunno.

Rybo
[/color]
"No ciricut" ????

the neutral -(E)^ -(-E) is from formal logic
it literally reads:

It is not the case that there is an electron flow - (E)
but it is not the case that there is NO Electron flow -(-E) i.e the electron flow is not truely negated or non -existant.
The electron flow potential has only been interrupted not removed or negated/obliterated in any shape or form.

All I can say is electron flow potential is never actually removed when on OFF it is an artificial restraint on something that continues to exist even though it is not manifest.
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12-29-2007, 12:26 AM
Re: The Three Theory

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Tina, we can "definitively" say that, there are *no* electrons flowing to the light fixture, if, there is working light bulb in the fixture or if we have some metering instrument likened to a light bulb.

This is definitetively a black-white, on-off active-passive set of circumstances that I have laid out.

There is no physical grey area here, except that of the metaphysical uncertainty of mind, i.e.when there is ;

Rybo

OMG you have resorted to color type to get through my thick head

OK: no electrons flowing to light fixture cause electron flow is no longer being conducted/directed towards light fixture... so electron flow exists but blocked from being diverted to light.
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12-29-2007, 09:29 AM
Re: The Three Theory

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OMG you have resorted to color type to get through my thick head

Tina no, I resorted to color because, I wasnt sure how to inject/intersperse my text response within yours( or others ) while keeping the two well differrentiated.

OK: no electrons flowing to light fixture cause electron flow is no longer being conducted/directed towards light fixture... so electron flow exists but blocked from being diverted to light.
Sounds like you may now agree with the binary, *On*-*Off* scenario, I laid in regards to a light switch.

The flow of electrons, to complete the circuit, is not "blocked" but interrupted by *no contact* within the switch.

There are conditions where there is *no contact* and the electrons will arc/jump across a space/gap to complete the circuit or to ground.

In those circumstances the air molecules become excited and release visible EMR( photons ) and heat/infra-red.

This "arcing" will occur only if the amplitude(?) of the electron flow is high enough to be attracted to the grounding circuit or too ground( something outside of the circuit ).

Rybo
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