[austintorn@aol.com]

That's a pretty big engagement ring, but there is a lot of wealth in space to buy it with.

I actually own an entire galaxy of my own.

[Mikal]

I read somewhere...where some astonomer said that Saturn was losing its rings...are you sure you didn't go there and already take one...???? Well hey...we'll do the moon, saturn's rings and then your own galaxy...I mean what the hey I'm up for a journey and if were gonna take one it might as well be expansive if anything...smiles


Mikal

[austintorn@aol.com]

[dipayankar]

So we are going back to Newtonian physics. However what w dont understand is that what is there in the mass which binds them together? Or should we be looking at Einstein and say mass is not important, the geometry of the space time is....

Originally Posted by Fredrick

No prob, Dipayankar,

It looks like we are finding each other on other threads as well.

I do not follow this idea of Gravitons because for me gravity is an internal force that automatically comes with any of the other forces. Like family bond comes with family members, it does not exist when family members are not present.

So, the sun and the earth are bound together, but not because of the Gravitons or gravity; we are caught in a dynamical situation that has found a balance in movement. Gravity is an expression of that situation. Also, it will not lead to one becoming part of the other. Far more important is that the earth and the sun share the collective movement away from Point X (the location in the universe where all matter comes from).

[Fredrick]

Originally Posted by dipayankar

So we are going back to Newtonian physics. However what w dont understand is that what is there in the mass which binds them together? Or should we be looking at Einstein and say mass is not important, the geometry of the space time is....

Admit it, Dipayankar, you have the toe already!

[austintorn@aol.com]

Mass can be dispensed with since energy does it all. That was easy.

[dipayankar]

No Fredrick, I still do not understand the mathematical equations. Also how do you equate the quantum with the massive???

Originally Posted by Fredrick

Admit it, Dipayankar, you have the toe already!

[Fredrick]

Originally Posted by dipayankar

No Fredrick, I still do not understand the mathematical equations. Also how do you equate the quantum with the massive???

You are amazingly good at asking questions, Dipayankar, and I feel honored you are asking me.

I consider QM the point in knowledge gathering at which we realize we cannot know for certain anymore. It is, however, a certainty that we cannot know for certain anymore at that level. As such, we have a fact about not-knowing facts.

Just like we have reached the outside of our knowable reality, each quanta has an outside of its being, too. Mass and energy are not all based on a single source, they are based each on themselves. The environment created by energy and mass influences energy and mass, but in essence each part is self-based. So we have quanta and we have mass.

In the pentaist theory the universe came into a material state because of an ongoing inward movement. Inward movement is the only direction that contains a limitation. To get out of a densely packed inward-movement situation, each part needs to be conscious about itself and about the whole. And that is unfortunately an almost impossible task, especially if the situation has not been experienced and understood before.

It is like packing as many people into a telephone booth as humanly possible. If that is done for the first time, and those unfortunate enough to find themselves all of a sudden in this situation, I assure you a pandemonium takes place: blood is shed, and actually only very few of the people will walk out of the phone booth alive.

Contrast this with a well-trained group of people, knowing what to do when and where to put all their arms and feet neatly, and these people will win a big prize, all going home unharmed.

The original beginning was not a nice place for our universe. And what we have become we only became after billions of years. We are products of an incredibly complicated re-organization process within very complicated circumstances. Our self-image is not the same as the self-based image of each quanta. We are a unified product, each of us, but our image that the outside universe must therefore also be unified is not correct. We are fine as we are, but we came out of a Big Bang (or even several of them).

Back to the math: in the binary system we have many 1s. And none of them is the only 1. In the decimal system we can turn 1 into first or best or highest or singularest. Of the 1 in one and the 1 in the other system: never the twain shall meet.

[Fredrick]

I realize it is difficult to come up with examples that show we have reached a limit, Dipayankar. Consider the following:

If we toss a coin, we get heads or tail. The chance of getting heads is 50%, but we are not getting 50% with just one toss, because we get either 100% heads or 100% tails.

After tossing a coin ten times, we may have gotten a result of 40% heads (4 out of 10). After tossing a coin 100 times, we may have gotten 46%.

The more we toss a coin, the closer we get to 50%, the expected outcome for this chance.

I am using this example to show that before tossing a coin, we cannot know the outcome. We can give the probability in percentages, but we cannot know the answer. Hence, we are limited in our knowledge until the moment we see the coin land on its back. However, if we toss a coin 1,000,000 times, we have a close to certainty that 50% of them will be heads; giving ourselves a margin of -say- .2% , then we can bet the house on this. So, the larger the number the more certainty we have. Follow this example into the squazillion and we have almost absolute certainty it will be 50% (like 50.00000000000001% or 49.9999999999999999%).

At that level we have classical physics, predictable; at the single level we have QM. So, QM is always the reality, but the overall 'normal' reality is classical physics. We cannot know the outcome of a single toss, we can be close to absolutely certain if we repeat this ad infinitum.

[austintorn@aol.com]

Fredrick,

One time my coin landed on the edge; another time it rolled down a gutter.

In baseball last week, a ball landed on top of the fence and stayed there. They are probably still there waiting for it to do something.

Also, an ambidextrous pitcher and a switch hitter batter exchanged left and right for ten minutes until the umpires made a new rule.

Another time the moon materialized in my room for a millisecond. There was a lot of dust to clean up.