[Fredrick]

Originally Posted by dipayankar Again perception is it Fredrick? Did String Theorists perceive the additional dimensions to the 2D+ dimensions that you described?

Perception is a very important component to our (daily) reality, Dipayankar. I am glad you asked, but I hope you don't mind the following information:

If I feel safe in my car, I may not be alert enough to take back gas when I should. In language, I can write stuff Science Fiction writers wouldn't even touch. In philosophy, I can make a table disappear even while you're still looking at it. In science I can have black holes contain a gravitational object that keeps an entire galaxy in place, but that cannot be seen itself, only its effects. In strings, I can have eleven dimensions all functioning perfectly fine each within each own dimension. In love, I can consider myself invinceable. In religion, I can conjure any deity I like. In my dreams I can fly to the moon (apparently also back, and also before I wake up).

I can even look for a theory of everything that was already found thousands of years ago, but that I ignore because it is delivered by ancient people and they are all dead. I can misinterpret all information discovered by scientists in the first part of the twentieth century, and claim we still don't have the overall picture in place (so governments keep funding my pet projects). I can look at inifinity as if it is mighty valuable. I can ignore the fact that I only need two eyes to see depth.

I guess it can all be captured in the saying that a fool can ask more questions than ten wise men can answer, but on behalf of the person asking the question, there are also never dumb questions. Dumb answers do exist.

String theorists are describing something that is experienced, but not something that is fundamental (or fundamentally different from what has been described already). Their information may indeed be valuable, but while it can color the picture, it does not help in an additional sense when wanting to understand the overall picture, it only further confuses.

As Austin made clear, two mirrors (one of them an interrogation mirror) creates all the depths needed for a white rabbit to enter. String theorists are like Alices in Wonderland. It is a story, but the story has a real message: don't follow the white rabbits (at least not for too long).

[dipayankar]

I forget the Alice in Wonderland story. However I would really like to churn the additional dimensions that the string theorists predict and then see where it leads us..

Originally Posted by Fredrick Perception is a very important component to our (daily) reality, Dipayankar. I am glad you asked, but I hope you don't mind the following information: If I feel safe in my car, I may not be alert enough to take back gas when I should. In language, I can write stuff Science Fiction writers wouldn't even touch. In philosophy, I can make a table disappear even while you're still looking at it. In science I can have black holes contain a gravitational object that keeps an entire galaxy in place, but that cannot be seen itself, only its effects. In strings, I can have eleven dimensions all functioning perfectly fine each within each own dimension. In love, I can consider myself invinceable. In religion, I can conjure any deity I like. In my dreams I can fly to the moon (apparently also back, and also before I wake up). I can even look for a theory of everything that was already found thousands of years ago, but that I ignore because it is delivered by ancient people and they are all dead. I can misinterpret all information discovered by scientists in the first part of the twentieth century, and claim we still don't have the overall picture in place (so governments keep funding my pet projects). I can look at inifinity as if it is mighty valuable. I can ignore the fact that I only need two eyes to see depth. I guess it can all be captured in the saying that a fool can ask more questions than ten wise men can answer, but on behalf of the person asking the question, there are also never dumb questions. Dumb answers do exist. String theorists are describing something that is experienced, but not something that is fundamental (or fundamentally different from what has been described already). Their information may indeed be valuable, but while it can color the picture, it does not help in an additional sense when wanting to understand the overall picture, it only further confuses. As Austin made clear, two mirrors (one of them an interrogation mirror) creates all the depths needed for a white rabbit to enter. String theorists are like Alices in Wonderland. It is a story, but the story has a real message: don't follow the white rabbits (at least not for too long).

[Fredrick]

Originally Posted by dipayankar I forget the Alice in Wonderland story. However I would really like to churn the additional dimensions that the string theorists predict and then see where it leads us..

Alice fell through the floor of reality, down a rabbit hole, and in this imaginary world she had wonderful adventures. I used it as the metaphore that if you fall in the hole of String Theorists that you can then experience many fun adventures. Either way, the adventures are based on fantasy (and fantasy can fill reality almost to the rim).

Do you mean churning as in turning it into something real, Dipayankar, or churning as in agitating the heck out of those theorists who had us by our strings for so long?

Really, if you want to churn strings into some real butter then I have a disappointment to give you; one must start out with real milk to get real butter. One must start out with real dimensions to get the actual outcomes. Start with fantasy/fake/art dimensions and you end up with fantasy/fake/art outcomes (that can have some interesting properties or tell stories otherwise not imagined).

The best way to comment on the string theory deliveries is to ask where their actual information is. The essence is that they do not have additional information, they are just explaining already covered dimensional information in more specific details.

Why is String so interesting for you?

[dipayankar]

I am trying to fathom still how a string can vibrate in one way and become a particular type of particle and vibrate the other way and become another type of particle and why should it require 11 dimensions???

Originally Posted by Fredrick Alice fell through the floor of reality, down a rabbit hole, and in this imaginary world she had wonderful adventures. I used it as the metaphore that if you fall in the hole of String Theorists that you can then experience many fun adventures. Either way, the adventures are based on fantasy (and fantasy can fill reality almost to the rim). Do you mean churning as in turning it into something real, Dipayankar, or churning as in agitating the heck out of those theorists who had us by our strings for so long? Really, if you want to churn strings into some real butter then I have a disappointment to give you; one must start out with real milk to get real butter. One must start out with real dimensions to get the actual outcomes. Start with fantasy/fake/art dimensions and you end up with fantasy/fake/art outcomes (that can have some interesting properties or tell stories otherwise not imagined). The best way to comment on the string theory deliveries is to ask where their actual information is. The essence is that they do not have additional information, they are just explaining already covered dimensional information in more specific details. Why is String so interesting for you?

[Fredrick]

Originally Posted by dipayankar I am trying to fathom still how a string can vibrate in one way and become a particular type of particle and vibrate the other way and become another type of particle and why should it require 11 dimensions???

Good question. About the 11 dimensions, I'm quite certain that's a bit much, but it is a number close to ten and to twelve, so let's see how that should make it right. Isn't one dimension based on the empty center, making eleven? Ten is our decimal system, and I posted some on that at the 'An Idea' thread, and I would say the empty spot is part of the ten already. Twelve is clearly part of the hexagonal system (like 24 hours is), so my bet is that it should be twelve, but one of the strings may actually be the combination of two strings.

If not required to give a real meaning when using the word dimension, I can come up with 24 strings (or 25 if needed).

Vibration is like wave, and I would say that the experience is one-dimensional. If you were to consider it an old fashioned record player, the needle reads the divice as intended, but if you spin it backwards the needle reads the same information backwards, actually making it different. Required: needle, record, spin and back-spin. You as the listener can understand one version quite easily, the other way you have to get trained in backward listening to understand it, but why would you.

I do not call this more than one-dimensional, just a recording you can play two different ways (but also faster or slower).

[dipayankar]

I still do not understand as to why we have to dance to the tunes of the exotic string theory, when The Standard Model was doing okay. Probably gravity does not converge with the other forces. Probably it is a pseudo force.

Originally Posted by Fredrick Good question. About the 11 dimensions, I'm quite certain that's a bit much, but it is a number close to ten and to twelve, so let's see how that should make it right. Isn't one dimension based on the empty center, making eleven? Ten is our decimal system, and I posted some on that at the 'An Idea' thread, and I would say the empty spot is part of the ten already. Twelve is clearly part of the hexagonal system (like 24 hours is), so my bet is that it should be twelve, but one of the strings may actually be the combination of two strings. If not required to give a real meaning when using the word dimension, I can come up with 24 strings (or 25 if needed). Vibration is like wave, and I would say that the experience is one-dimensional. If you were to consider it an old fashioned record player, the needle reads the divice as intended, but if you spin it backwards the needle reads the same information backwards, actually making it different. Required: needle, record, spin and back-spin. You as the listener can understand one version quite easily, the other way you have to get trained in backward listening to understand it, but why would you. I do not call this more than one-dimensional, just a recording you can play two different ways (but also faster or slower).

[Fredrick]

Originally Posted by dipayankar I still do not understand as to why we have to dance to the tunes of the exotic string theory, when The Standard Model was doing okay. Probably gravity does not converge with the other forces. Probably it is a pseudo force.

I couldn't agree with you more, Dipayankar,

The way I explain it: if one does know the toe then String is not that important. If one doesn't know the String, then anything that will get you closer to a better understanding becomes important.

As you know, even here at toequest, we have groups of people who are still looking for the toe, while others say we have the toe already. I belong to the latter camp, having known the essence of the toe since 1981, and the penta pyramid since 1992, in which gravity is indeed an internal force.

What is your position?

[dipayankar]

Honestly Fredrick, I am not aware of the Penta Pyramid. I would highly appreciate if you could kindly direct me to a link where I could get more information..

Originally Posted by Fredrick I couldn't agree with you more, Dipayankar, The way I explain it: if one does know the toe then String is not that important. If one doesn't know the String, then anything that will get you closer to a better understanding becomes important. As you know, even here at toequest, we have groups of people who are still looking for the toe, while others say we have the toe already. I belong to the latter camp, having known the essence of the toe since 1981, and the penta pyramid since 1992, in which gravity is indeed an internal force. What is your position?

[Fredrick]

Originally Posted by dipayankar Honestly Fredrick, I am not aware of the Penta Pyramid. I would highly appreciate if you could kindly direct me to a link where I could get more information..

Sure, Dipayankar,

There are two ways to get more information on the pyramid. One is on toequest at the TON thread (and other threads as well), where I have discussed the forces from a conceptual pyramidal display. http://www.toequest.com/forum/your-toe-theory/1828-t-o-n-theory-nothing-58.html#post29733 may be a good place to start. The other probably faster way is through my publisher of In Search of a Cyclops at http://www.pentapublishing.com The book is called that way, because I see that those looking for a toe are looking for something singular, while in reality everyone has two eyes of course. In our minds we can create singularities quite easily, in reality they are not that easily found.

What it comes down to is that there are four 'external' forces (when separating electric force and magnetic force plus the other two of strong and weak nuclear force), while gravity is the internal force of the pyramid. The four external forces take in oppositional places, like the corners of the pyramid, while on the inside gravity takes place. Conditions depend on how intensely the forces exist/contribute within each other's environment (moving up the pyramid a more intense situation is found).

[dipayankar]

How do you relate gravity to these three forces??

Originally Posted by Fredrick Sure, Dipayankar, There are two ways to get more information on the pyramid. One is on toequest at the TON thread (and other threads as well), where I have discussed the forces from a conceptual pyramidal display. http://www.toequest.com/forum/your-toe-theory/1828-t-o-n-theory-nothing-58.html#post29733 may be a good place to start. The other probably faster way is through my publisher of In Search of a Cyclops at http://www.pentapublishing.com The book is called that way, because I see that those looking for a toe are looking for something singular, while in reality everyone has two eyes of course. In our minds we can create singularities quite easily, in reality they are not that easily found. What it comes down to is that there are four 'external' forces (when separating electric force and magnetic force plus the other two of strong and weak nuclear force), while gravity is the internal force of the pyramid. The four external forces take in oppositional places, like the corners of the pyramid, while on the inside gravity takes place. Conditions depend on how intensely the forces exist/contribute within each other's environment (moving up the pyramid a more intense situation is found).