[melanie]

How do we get to this blissful state of pure awareness ??
our eternal essence the knowing we were never born
and that we can never die ??

forget about the ''imposter'' the little singular piece of the picture, the temporal little 'i' ... think instead of the WHOLE picture, that is who 'we' are

for this dream to appear and be possible .. there had to be real sensation
feelings of pain, hurt, happiness, and joyful pleasure,
otherwise what would be the point of this experiencing at all ?

These sensations can be transcended, by going inwards or backwards to out roots,
the state prior to apparent physical birth, prior to conception [Pure Awareness] before consciousness was born of sensation.


'' pain is only the chaos we don't like ''

But why be afraid for it is your friend in disguise


This pain is not to make you sad, remember. That's where people go on missing ... This pain is just to make you more alert ... because people become alert only when the arrow goes deep into their heart and wounds them. Otherwise they don't become alert. When life is easy, comfortable, convenient, who cares? Who bothers to become alert? When a friend dies, there is a possibility. When your woman leaves you alone - those dark nights, you are lonely. You have loved that woman so much and you have staked all, and then suddenly one day she is gone. Crying in your loneliness, those are the occasions when, if you use them, you can become aware. The arrow is hurting ... it can be used.
The pain is not to make you miserable, the pain is to make you more aware And when you are aware, misery disappears.

Misery will disappear and 'we' will return to our original state of [eternal pure awareness] otherwise known as enlightenment.

[melanie]

CONSCIOUSNESS

We come from the unknown and we go on moving into the unknown. We will come again; we have been here thousands of times, and we will be here thousands of times. Our essential being is immortal but our body, our embodiment, is mortal. Our frame in which we are, our houses, the body, the mind, they are made of material things. They will get tired, they will get old, they will die. But your consciousness, for which Bohidharma uses the word 'no-mind' - Gautam Buddha has also used the word 'no-mind' - is something beyond body and mind, something beyond everything; that no-mind is eternal. It comes into expression, and goes again into the unknown.
This movement from the unknown to the known, and from the known to the unknown, continues for eternity, unless somebody becomes enlightened. Then that is his last life; then this flower will not come back again. This flower that becomes aware of itself need not come back to life because life is nothing but a school in which to learn. He has learned the lesson, he is now beyond delusions. He will move from the known for the first time not into the unknown, but into the unknowable.

[N0B0DY]

For sure it's a large story, Melanie, and the way of no way - wei wu-wei - we both advocate reveals the "purposelessness" of temporal existence as being merely an illusory byproduct of perfection.

Just like the breathless state is the means of mastering the dualistic breath, the wuji gateway is the means of mastering the maya of taiji; the result being the perfect tao. For this reason I feel proposals of nirvana being a unified blissful end instead of the means to the ultimate mastery of life.

[N0B0DY]

"Misery will disappear and 'we' will return to our original state of [eternal pure awareness] otherwise known as enlightenment."

If we were enlightened originally, how and why would we allow ourselves to become presently unenlightened? We would have known what the consequences would be, no?

[melanie]

Originally Posted by N0B0DY

"Misery will disappear and 'we' will return to our original state of [eternal pure awareness] otherwise known as enlightenment."

If we were enlightened originally, how and why would we allow ourselves to become presently unenlightened? We would have known what the consequences would be, no?

Yes you raise a good point here ..of course THIS arising IS-ness is already AWAKE [enlightened]

It is when 'we' are lost in our little separate individual stories of little 'me'
that we feel a sense of separateness, this is due to our common ignorant human conditioning.

No single person becomes enlightened in reality, because no single person exists, except as an individual appearance or the many faces of the ONE original face ..
in THIS already conceived AWAKE PERFECT ONENESS.

Only when the apparent entity works through his/her conditioning of false beliefs/ideas and delusions of separateness, will they enter into a raised state of consciousness
and be self- aware in touch with the ONE self. [Pure Eternal Awareness]
Which is who they are all along.
The appearances are the stories the dreams .. playing out on the screen.
The appearances are the dreamed, and have no existence,
except as sensations sensed and known instantly as the ONE with the knowing.

THE CREATOR

There are two types of creators in the world: one type of creator works with objects a poet, a painter, they work with objects, they create things, the other type of creator, the mystic, creates himself. He doesn't work with objects, he works with the subject; he works on himself, his own being. And he is the real creator, the real poet because he makes himself into a masterpiece.
You are carrying a masterpiece hidden within you, but you are standing in the way. Just move aside, then the masterpiece will be revealed. Everyone is a masterpiece, because God never gives birth to anything less that that. Everyone carries that masterpiece hidden for many lives, not knowing who they are, and just trying on the surface to become someone.
Drop the idea of becoming someone, because you already are a masterpiece. You cannot be improved. You have only to come to it, to know it, to realize it. God has himself created you, you cannot be improved.

The god that has created you is not separate from you. Remember GOD is only a concept giving meaning to THIS arising IS-ness the dream.

When people come to this realization all suffering will cease,
it will still arise, but we will no longer be emotionally affected by it,
we will not identify with it as being something we want to get rid of,
we will see it for what it really is, a lesson for us to awaken to our true
identity, this is otherwise known as awakening ... or our heaven on earth.

Where else is our heaven going to be but here on earth?

mel.

[Drifter]

Culture and Parental Conditioning begin early. "Look, that's Johnny [Suzie], in the mirror".
The rest is history.
It could not have been conceptualized, at that time there was no "we", "I", "me","you" too conceptualize, or know, although it was known, by nobody, Awareness was aware of it, then "we" came along.

Originally Posted by N0B0DY

"Misery will disappear and 'we' will return to our original state of [eternal pure awareness] otherwise known as enlightenment."

If we were enlightened originally, how and why would we allow ourselves to become presently unenlightened? We would have known what the consequences would be, no?

[Fluent Piffle]

Of course, 'perfection' is always unattainable, seeing as everything is always moving/changing, and I do not think the blind concept of 'zero' has any place in an Honest description of existence. Neither does anyone else here, if you say 'All is One'! So, 'no'-mind, and other 'non'-descriptions simply do not work, and will thus continue to be contested.


pif.

[melanie]

Originally Posted by Fluent Piffle

Of course, 'perfection' is always unattainable, seeing as everything is always moving/changing, and I do not think the blind concept of 'zero' has any place in an Honest description of existence. Neither does anyone else here, if you say 'All is One'! So, 'no'-mind, and other 'non'-descriptions simply do not work, and will thus continue to be contested.


pif.

No-thing is actually moving or changing,
only as appearance, the reflection, however the MIRROR stays the same unaffected and motionless perfect.

'we' can polish the dust off the mirror, and see ourselves with more clarity/perfection.

Saying perfection is unattainable is correct from a dualistic sense,
like that of two lovers who cannot attain a perfect blissful un-conditional relationship, because physical love is always met with conditions,
that is the nature of physicality ...the yin & yang arising mutually.

On the other hand PERFECTION already IS ...CENTRAL in our beingness.
it's just that 'we' can't SEE it with our limited conditioned full minds.[DUST]
Only by being a no-mind[CLARITY] being center in our being do we SEE our true self.

Un-conditional love.

mel.

[Fluent Piffle]

I understand 'perfection' as a subjective 'wishful' mind-state, and you are not yet convincing me otherwise.

There can be no 'mirror', or anything else actually existing as 'motionless'.

Being a 'no-mind' is what makes us destroy each other. This is the kind of 'belief' that manipulates people into wars. Or perhaps Humans at war IS us being our 'true selves'?

A 'no-conceptual-mind', I might understand better...but we still have to live and exist as finite beings on a finite Planet, and thus we still also need as much 'Real-mind' as we can muster.

I do understand your conceptualisations, but you will not convince anyone of anything with a One-sided stance. If you do not find a way to correlate the 'All' AND the 'many', you will still have some kind of 'opposition' (to your own finiteness) going on. The Reality, 'good' or 'bad' that we ourselves create, we ourselves must learn how to deal with, learn from. Pretending that everything is all 'sweet and lovely' is just more make-up. It will not lead to any 'utopian' vision. All attempts such as these have started with the same 'good intentions' ways, and crumbled in self-destruction as a consequence of being poorly informed, or 'One-sided'. We can only work with everything else, and we can only work with the current language of the times. 'Now,here'...remember? We must therefore find language within ourselves that suits everybody...not just 'nobody'.

It feels as though people are allowing themselves to get caught up in the 'turf-wars' of 'science versus religion'. Such division may be the Real death of us all, not to mention all the other creatures who have to exist in whatever mess we leave behind. (And that will include our own children, of course!).



pif.

[N0B0DY]

Originally Posted by Fluent Piffle

Of course, 'perfection' is always unattainable, seeing as everything is always moving/changing, and I do not think the blind concept of 'zero' has any place in an Honest description of existence. Neither does anyone else here, if you say 'All is One'! So, 'no'-mind, and other 'non'-descriptions simply do not work, and will thus continue to be contested.

Pif,

We have both agreed with Melanie's conclusions, but I feel that you still think I'm proclaiming a type of nothingness exists when the claim from the beginning has been that it doesn't. I'm also not trying to convince anyone of anything, eventhough many people have told me that they understand the gist of my theory which is the synonymy of nothing and everything - absolutely impenetrable - and the means by which the absolute universe perfects itself in absolutely no time. The latter point of which makes sense because it doesn't make sense to proclaim absolute time when all times are relative.

Further, all that can be said about reality in any concrete - spatiotemporal - terms is finite, and All is One is just as non-descriptive as all is none if the "One" cannot be clearly defined. It is merely a case of an old concept being brought to the front again, like the return of an old dress style, and has been misinterpreted as being a unified state of the many. Depending on our level of understanding the variable depths of our experiences, we can focus on the finite, then extend this understanding to infinite proportions, and finally to the absolute point of no return...no "Eternal Return" to be excact.

If we must ponder the existence of All as One, consider that because it exists everywhere it exists nowhere in particular. It is non-spatiotemporal and has the means of recreating any illusory individual separation at any arbitrary place and time because there is really no AND places and times. I have made mention a few times referencing the comparability of the void to the fullness of space - without and broken-wave or -particle symmetries - whereby this equivalence leads to the realization of instantaneity, the reduction of which any and all subconscious parameters are based upon.



Perhaps consider reading up on inversely-proportional laws, to get a clearer depiction of how spacetime decreases as velocity increases; thereby conceding reinstating absolute velocity decreases spacetime to zero which renders all spacetime frames velocity-dependent, which is all I am conveying here, pif.

There is no contest, because there is nothing to be contested.