[everymansmedium]

Originally Posted by not2too

Where is consciousness in the equation? Could you not make the same statements if consciousness did not exist?

Best,
not2too

Hello Not2too:
I will answer this time. But I do not wish to dilute nobody’s thread. We could take this to a separate thread if you are truly interested.

I see consciousness as the result of what would be simulated with software by a probability to priority loop. This is a loop that calculates the probability of value, ability to attain, etc of the items of interest including the probability of the success of self actions. In order to calculate the probable success rate of self action it is necessary to observe the self in action. When the self observes the self in action to gain statistical information, it begins to develop an awareness of self. This awareness of self is (I believe) the basis of consciousness. In this case the idea of consciousness may not be such a rare occurrence. It is I believe in the natural order of things at the point that it is necessary to observe self to be able to predict our own ability to perform more difficult tasks.
John

[not2too]

Originally Posted by everymansmedium

Hello Not2too:
I will answer this time. But I do not wish to dilute nobody’s thread. We could take this to a separate thread if you are truly interested.

I see consciousness as the result of what would be simulated with software by a probability to priority loop. This is a loop that calculates the probability of value, ability to attain, etc of the items of interest including the probability of the success of self actions. In order to calculate the probable success rate of self action it is necessary to observe the self in action. When the self observes the self in action to gain statistical information, it begins to develop an awareness of self. This awareness of self is (I believe) the basis of consciousness. In this case the idea of consciousness may not be such a rare occurrence. It is I believe in the natural order of things at the point that it is necessary to observe self to be able to predict our own ability to perform more difficult tasks.
John

I am familiar with this description of consciousness. I don't think its necessary to start another consciousness thread...there are quite a few already. It may be interesting and productive to post these ideas in Consciousness holds the key. to the T.O.E. in the Your TOE Theory section, and take it from there...or in some other consciousness thread if you have not engaged these threads already...

Best,
not2too

[everymansmedium]

Originally Posted by not2too

I am familiar with this description of consciousness. I don't think its necessary to start another consciousness thread...there are quite a few already. It may be interesting and productive to post these ideas in Consciousness holds the key. to the T.O.E. in the Your TOE Theory section, and take it from there...or in some other consciousness thread if you have not engaged these threads already...

Best,
not2too

Hi not2too:
I first published that thought in an article called Unit Unity Community
in 1987. It was the result of experiments in AI. Self simulation using expert system technology and natural language processing. This work continues.
I hope to have software to share this year. I plan a discussion relative to AI software, self simulation and the PPL.
John.

[not2too]

Originally Posted by everymansmedium

Hi not2too:
I first published that thought in an article called Unit Unity Community
in 1987. It was the result of experiments in AI. Self simulation using expert system technology and natural language processing. This work continues.
I hope to have software to share this year. I plan a discussion relative to AI software, self simulation and the PPL.
John.

I look forward to further discussions of your work as it develops.

Further,
not2too

[N0B0DY]

Talk about getting right to the point! You guys are champions amongst scientists.

When you relate awareness of self to a basis for consciousness, not2too, are you interpreting consciousness and awareness as different phenomena? Some do, but I can't figure out the difference between, say, selfconsciousness and selfawareness.

An analogy I often use is a blank white canvass that already contains every conceivable picture. It is impossible to be aware of this, however, because the pictures lie within the fullness of the white (all colors) canvass, and what is required for each individual picture to be consciously made known is differentiation. Now extended to a world picture, the process or basis for consciousness as it would be applied to any probability distribution seems to be the variable energy transfers that are absorbed by the senses and categorized as differential quanta and qualia.

Just a few thoughts on the issue at hand.

[N0B0DY]

I think the fullness of the vacuum is indicative of the following interpretation of Inductive Logic, though counter-intuitive.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/logic-inductive

[everymansmedium]

Originally Posted by N0B0DY

When you relate awareness of self to a basis for consciousness, not2too, are you interpreting consciousness and awareness as different phenomena? Some do, but I can't figure out the difference between, say, selfconsciousness and selfawareness.

Hi Nobody:
I do not know that there is a difference between awareness of self and consciousness. My guess is there is no difference except in the semantics.
When working with AI and causing a loop to examine itself to evaluate its own efficiency, it would be first called observation/awareness of itself.
It is only the words that first come to mind when explaining the phenomena.
The implications of what might be happening come later. When I was experimenting with this loop my goal was an improvement in the loops statistical evaluation of its operation. The thought of what might be happening comes when the unexpected results begin to happen. This was on a very simple text based system. The final test is when I get to perform the same test by using the natural language system and program this thought in English, to a dual expert system. (both noun expert and verb expert)
I hope to be able to do this before the end of this year.
John

[N0B0DY]

The programmer that I mentioned before said that one of the problems with AI is setting the proper parameters by which the variable levels of efficiency can be observed.

I think before there can be any such conscious machines that can efficiently and effectually operate, there has to be a correct understanding of consciousness; and one of the reasons I oppose AI and think it impossible to create at a sufficient enough standard to avoid mishap, is that consciousness is an inside-outside process consisting of an infinite number of variables, whereas AI is based on an outside-inside process consisting of a finite number of variables.

The same can be applied to cloning humans without fully understanding the consequences involved. Sequences that are comparable to master con artists that rick the mind into believing they can be manipulated by individuals; it takes away from the sole governing power of the universe imo, John. Like I said before, free will is a man-made concept that misleads folks down their own 'self-governed' destinies, and it seems that endless mistakes repeatedly abound.

[Fluent Piffle]

Sequences that are comparable to master con artists that rick the mind into believing they can be manipulated by individuals

Yes, this much is true, Nob. People can only be manipulated by each other when agreeing to a certain amount of it from within themselves. No-one can do anything of the sort, unless you consent to it in some way, and specifically this means remaining 'blind' to the tricks..



If there is such a thing as a 'sole governing power' of the universe, how is it possible that anything can be 'taken away' from it?

...it seems that endless mistakes repeatedly abound.

Perhaps there is just endlessness repeating, and the bits we don't personally like, we have indoctrinated ourselves into calling 'mistakes'?




pif.

[not2too]

Nobody, John, et.al....
I will be traveling for the next week or so and will only be online sporadically. Probably will not post much during this period.
More later...
not2too