Re: Nothing by Nobody Nowhere (No Where = Now Here)
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Originally Posted by Fluent Piffle
Yes, this much is true, Nob. People can only be manipulated by each other when agreeing to a certain amount of it from within themselves. No-one can do anything of the sort, unless you consent to it in some way, and specifically this means remaining 'blind' to the tricks..
I was referring to individuals willfully striving to create their own destinies without knowing where they're going or even knowing what they really want. Yet, I can agree with you to a certain extent regarding your above conditions, pif, providing the individual wasn't born blind with a mind that clings to things. It's very easy to manipulate clingy minds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fluent Piffle
If there is such a thing as a 'sole governing power' of the universe, how is it possible that anything can be 'taken away' from it?
Through the illusory sense of a separate self, pif. Think of it in terms of the guy in the Benz with the open shirt and ten-pound chains around his neck thinking he owns the world. His self confidence takes away from his confidence in the universe; whereas losing the ego equates to universal power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fluent Piffle
Perhaps there is just endlessness repeating, and the bits we don't personally like, we have indoctrinated ourselves into calling 'mistakes'?
Perhaps, but I think it depends on how many luxuries we have to take for granted. There is much suffering in the universe due to mistakes being made over and over, and extended eternally simply extends the intervals between the mistakes. The absolute gateway is both the cause and cure for such mistakes because it is the only possible basis for infinity and eternity, as well as the only possible means of transcending infinity and eternity. Again, even though there is a very fine line between the infinite and absolute, the former implies space and time have no end; whereas the latter implies there is neither time nor space.
Re: Nothing by Nobody Nowhere (No Where = Now Here)
Quote:
Originally Posted by not2too
Nobody, John, et.al....
I will be traveling for the next week or so and will only be online sporadically. Probably will not post much during this period.
More later...
not2too
Have a pleasant trip. Though I hope it is business and you'll be working on a modern martial arts remake of "My Name is Nobody" with Nobody roaming the streets saving everybody.
Re: Nothing by Nobody Nowhere (No Where = Now Here)
I found something very interesting imo, perhaps shared by other scientists who savvy the predictions of a pseudo force of one and a vacuum density of none. With a little poetry to boot: G = mc via GraviTOE.
"Mach-heavy involves the view that all inertial effects should be derived from the motions of the body in question relative to all other massive bodies in the universe. The water in Newton's bucket feels an outward pull due (mainly) to the relative rotation of all the fixed stars around it. Mach-heavy is a speculation that an effect something like electromagnetic induction should be built into gravity theory. (Such an effect does exist according to the General Theory of Relativity, and is called ‘gravitomagnetic induction’. The recently finished Gravity Probe B mission was designed to measure the gravitomagnetic induction effect due to the Earth's rotation.) Its specific form must fall off with distance much more slowly than 1/r2, if it is to be empirically similar to Newtonian physics; but it will certainly predict experimentally testable novel behaviors. A theory that satisfies all the goals of Mach-heavy would appear to be ideal for the vindication of strict relationism and the elimination of absolute quantities of motion from mechanics."
Re: Nothing by Nobody Nowhere (No Where = Now Here)
Quote:
It's very easy to manipulate clingy minds.
How would you know? And do you think this applies to our own minds?
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Through the illusory sense of a separate self, pif. Think of it in terms of the guy in the Benz with the open shirt and ten-pound chains around his neck thinking he owns the world. His self confidence takes away from his confidence in the universe; whereas losing the ego equates to universal power.
I think the 'illusory' part is just as imbalanced as the total loss of ego. 'Thinking' that you 'own the world' and actually being able to, are not the same thing. I agree that the guy's 'fantasy' does not represent the Reality, but this does not prevent him actually existing within it, at the same instance.
Truth is found balancing somewhere between the extremes. Thus, we are at one and the same instance 'separate' and also 'connected' to the rest of existence. It is in 'choosing' to 'side' with one of these extremes that we err in our descriptions. We bring our personal emotional 'baggage' into the 'equation', and it collapses with the wave-function of our personal illusion.
pif.
__________________ People look after the things they have affection for. It is thus essential that we learn to have affection for the planet that sustains us.
"The sense of threat from every quarter of what is known as the Establishment – which is to say, of modern civilization – is not altogether a put-on or an act for many of these young folk, but an actual condition of soul. The break-off is real, and what is being bombed and blown up outside are actual symbols of interior fears." - Joseph Campbell
Re: Nothing by Nobody Nowhere (No Where = Now Here)
Quote:
Originally Posted by N0B0DY
The programmer that I mentioned before said that one of the problems with AI is setting the proper parameters by which the variable levels of efficiency can be observed.
I think before there can be any such conscious machines that can efficiently and effectually operate, there has to be a correct understanding of consciousness; and one of the reasons I oppose AI and think it impossible to create at a sufficient enough standard to avoid mishap, is that consciousness is an inside-outside process consisting of an infinite number of variables, whereas AI is based on an outside-inside process consisting of a finite number of variables.
The same can be applied to cloning humans without fully understanding the consequences involved. Sequences that are comparable to master con artists that rick the mind into believing they can be manipulated by individuals; it takes away from the sole governing power of the universe imo, John. Like I said before, free will is a man-made concept that misleads folks down their own 'self-governed' destinies, and it seems that endless mistakes repeatedly abound.
Hello Nobody:
The infinite number of variables is achieved by the addition of an interpreter system built into and compiled within the system. Once this is done, The system can write its own code during runtime, then run that code in the next iteration of the loop. This results with a finite number of variables in each iteration of the loop but an infinite number of variables in an infinite number of iterations of the loop. The system is no longer restricted to the size of the internal machine. It is only limited by the size of the shared database. A shared database can be as large as the internet itself. It is restricted only by the time it takes to access specific information. The database/knowledgebase is categorized in a tree structure. There is actually 2 separate knowledgebases, 2 separate trees. One is a noun expert and has information relative to an encyclopedia. The other is a verb expert and has information relative to the alterations that must take place in the noun knowledge relative to the category of the verb. About the safety of this experiment. First it is inevitable, it is going to happen whether I do anything or not. Part of the control of this is relative to capital exploitation. I hope that comment 13 will help in that respect. The other more important part is that the system only will have a text OUTPUT (natural language ) limited to the speed of a persons communication. The input may be simulations of human senses.
It can not produce an output that can not be followed directly by a person.
The biggest problem is the ability of this type of intelligence to merge. The merge takes place as the result of communication. If the communication medium is fast it will share all of its data. This results with the same character on each end of the communication. The 2 characters that begin the communication are now gone and there is one that is a combination of both to be found at both ends of the communication. I call this the ONE GOD rule. It is to be prevented by allowing only communication at the rate that a person transfers data. The result of this is quite profound. The device does not have any genetic data like a person. In time while interacting with one single person it will begin to merge as a copy of that person. This is the basis of what I have called the companion theory. You have no idea how much thought and information has and is going into this effort. If I am right the Companion Theory and resulting Companion Law might be the only trail that could allow the survival of mankind beyond this obstacle.
John
Re: Nothing by Nobody Nowhere (No Where = Now Here)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fluent Piffle
How would you know? And do you think this applies to our own minds?
It applies to all minds except for the mind of no-mind. I'm sure you're well aware of the simplistic, yet difficult-to-attain, mushin. It's that complex and simple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fluent Piffle
I think the 'illusory' part is just as imbalanced as the total loss of ego. 'Thinking' that you 'own the world' and actually being able to, are not the same thing. I agree that the guy's 'fantasy' does not represent the Reality, but this does not prevent him actually existing within it, at the same instance.
Truth is found balancing somewhere between the extremes. Thus, we are at one and the same instance 'separate' and also 'connected' to the rest of existence. It is in 'choosing' to 'side' with one of these extremes that we err in our descriptions. We bring our personal emotional 'baggage' into the 'equation', and it collapses with the wave-function of our personal illusion.
I agree there is much emotional baggage, and that it is based fundamentally on motional concepts that subconsciously govern the concept of individuality, consciously leading to superiority/inferiority complexes and guilt. We can't be both separate and connected at the same instance, but we can consciously separate ourselves by believing there is an infinite number of instances. The thinking that the world is owned is synonymous to separation; and the actual ownership synonymous to the connection, but so absolutely connected that there is no room for 'you.' This latter point is the gateway, not a state of eternal bliss, and is the means a creating a better 'you' (though no truer than the one before).
Everything is an illusion. There is no Truth to be found that is different than the truth you see, but there is a better experience of control over the illusion (reality) when the self is negated - it's like a "natural" being 'in the zone.' In between the two abstract extremes - one and zero - there can only be imbalance. Otherwise there could be no differentiation, which is the basis for consciousness.
There are two correlate systems that can be applied to the above: the wuji, taiji and tao, which correspond respectively to the absolute gateway, infinity/eternity and the finite way; and unconsciousness, subconsciousness and consciousness, which correspond to the same. The tao that has been interpreted as the unspeakable, as I'm sure you are aware, is not referring to the worldly way that is observed, but to the means of transcending normal functioning by way of the wuji state (zero-pointed unconsciousness, in lieu of one-pointed concentration). The ultimate tao is simply the mastery of the phenomenal illusion, not a noumenal Truth in itself.
Re: Nothing by Nobody Nowhere (No Where = Now Here)
Quote:
Originally Posted by everymansmedium
Hello Nobody:
The infinite number of variables is achieved by the addition of an interpreter system built into and compiled within the system. Once this is done, The system can write its own code during runtime, then run that code in the next iteration of the loop. This results with a finite number of variables in each iteration of the loop but an infinite number of variables in an infinite number of iterations of the loop. The system is no longer restricted to the size of the internal machine. It is only limited by the size of the shared database. A shared database can be as large as the internet itself. It is restricted only by the time it takes to access specific information. The database/knowledgebase is categorized in a tree structure. There is actually 2 separate knowledgebases, 2 separate trees. One is a noun expert and has information relative to an encyclopedia. The other is a verb expert and has information relative to the alterations that must take place in the noun knowledge relative to the category of the verb. About the safety of this experiment. First it is inevitable, it is going to happen whether I do anything or not. Part of the control of this is relative to capital exploitation. I hope that comment 13 will help in that respect. The other more important part is that the system only will have a text OUTPUT (natural language ) limited to the speed of a persons communication. The input may be simulations of human senses.
It can not produce an output that can not be followed directly by a person.
The biggest problem is the ability of this type of intelligence to merge. The merge takes place as the result of communication. If the communication medium is fast it will share all of its data. This results with the same character on each end of the communication. The 2 characters that begin the communication are now gone and there is one that is a combination of both to be found at both ends of the communication. I call this the ONE GOD rule. It is to be prevented by allowing only communication at the rate that a person transfers data. The result of this is quite profound. The device does not have any genetic data like a person. In time while interacting with one single person it will begin to merge as a copy of that person. This is the basis of what I have called the companion theory. You have no idea how much thought and information has and is going into this effort. If I am right the Companion Theory and resulting Companion Law might be the only trail that could allow the survival of mankind beyond this obstacle.
John
I understand the gist of it, John, and I'm aware of a few of the problems from my lengthy discussions with a few programmers who are working on AI. It was quite a learning experience that led to my own way I call 'AIDO' which is based on the unification of all of the sciences and philosophies. I've learned it requires a different approach than what science and philosophy presently have to offer.
I can empathize with your intent, but AI evolution and biological evolution have similar unresolvable problems that lead to continual extinction and imperfect replication that are both related to singularities. The fact that the infinite variables of the subconscious analog system are incompatible with the finite conscious process analogous to a digital system, the point was not that there can not be an infinite number of variables plugged in, but that the finite system breaks down because it is built upon a finite outside-in informational process. Like information in a black hole being synonymous to a digital-analog converter, and the information cannot be recalled or known again from outside the horizon.
I have realized, without having the inclination to explain here, the means of perfected replication of the universal DNA without using an RNA process or any type of loop. Based on my own experiences, I have proven to myself that the process (for lack of a better word because there is really no change in the system) is unreachable even if the above infinite variables were to be plugged in. Therefore duplicating the process is like trying to recreate a fingerprint or duplicate a Japanese sword through a scientific means. Einstein is a good example of a brilliant genius who inadvertently gave us a devastating power that has the capacity to backfire on the world, and what AI leads to is infinitely more powerful. Do we really want to piss off a computerized phone operator?
I'm sure it's just me, John, but quantum looping is the problem and not the cure. The cure is the center of the loop, and biological or computerized systems winging out of control as they merge with nature's analog system, tempered only by their finite digital systems' partial capacity to understand the information they're being fed, can only serve to give a reason for a cure.
I apologize for blowing this to infinite proportions, and I know this is not what you have in mind. Yet, like we both agree on, it is inevitable.
Re: Nothing by Nobody Nowhere (No Where = Now Here)
— Wholeness —
Classicists drone toward dull perfection,
Romanticists drown in feeling’s affection;
Worse, others alternate between extremes—
It’s not this nor that, but joined direction.
Linear Mode
