[melanie]

Originally Posted by dipayankar This is meaningful if you believe in the mind. For me there is nothing as the mind. Its only the brain that exists...

The mind is an aspect of consciousness, self conscious.
what is consciousness? what is self? no- mind/body knows.

The brain is visible physical matter, which we think makes up a person a reality.
Cut up the brain and where is the data that assumes it's reality or the idea of a person present.?
The thought that says i am my brain is a thought, where is that thought?
It is nowhere or invisible.

We could say it is in our consciousness, and then we could say
where is consciousness, we still don't know.
When we question we are looking for continuation or more of what we are already.
That is the nature of the mind/brain

And that is what's known as circular logic, so there is nothing more to say or do.
Except for the restless mind seeking self satisfaction, gratification fulfillment,
the ego 'i' needs constant reassurance where there isn't any.
Nothing wrong with that logic either.

melanie.

[dipayankar]

The thought is the result of the electro-chemical reactions that take place in the brain..

Originally Posted by melanie The mind is an aspect of consciousness, self conscious. what is consciousness? what is self? no- mind/body knows. The brain is visible physical matter, which we think makes up a person a reality. Cut up the brain and where is the data that assumes it's reality or the idea of a person present.? The thought that says i am my brain is a thought, where is that thought? It is nowhere or invisible. We could say it is in our consciousness, and then we could say where is consciousness, we still don't know. When we question we are looking for continuation or more of what we are already. That is the nature of the mind/brain And that is what's known as circular logic, so there is nothing more to say or do. Except for the restless mind seeking self satisfaction, gratification fulfillment, the ego 'i' needs constant reassurance where there isn't any. Nothing wrong with that logic either. melanie.

[melanie]

Originally Posted by dipayankar The thought is the result of the electro-chemical reactions that take place in the brain..

The electro-chemical reactions are the reactors re-cognizing data in response to stimulus, via senses sensed.
Which is the animating illuminating force that makes an 'appearance' as a something sensed.
The brain has already processed data, before there is any re-action on our part.

Our brains are nothing more that what culture and conditioning has put in there. Like a computer.
Left to it's own devices it would function according to natural law, not of it's own making.

melanie.

[not2too]

Originally Posted by dipayankar Not2too, unless anything can be described scientifically can we really debate on them?? In my view they are vague ideas...

The type of exchange that we are having now has been going on in the various fields of science, philosophy of science, philosophy, psychology, etc. for a long time. Some would say that the question "Why do I exist?" has no meaning, but it certainly does to the person asking it. Some would say that the statement, "I am in love" has no meaning because it concerns a subjective state. What is the scientific definition of love? If you only want to discuss/debate those aspects of reality that conform to your definition of scientific definition, then you are leaving out, in my view, all that is important about being alive...and I was trained as a behaviorist, brain and behavior, psychobiologist...

There is an extensive and well thought out discussion of this in Arnold Mindell's (a physicist - MIT - and Jungian analyst) Quantum Mind. He refers to CR - consensus reality and NCR - non-consensus reality - as both being, not only valid, but essential, aspects of reality theory construction. Many other researchers, writers...physicists...mathematicians...also are not afraid to tackle this "hard problem"...but Mindell's works comes to mind because of its thoroughness.

Best,
not2too

[melanie]

Action speaks louder than words. .. kinda takes the pressure off 'us' really! .. Thank God!


When you act you are one with the action,
it is only afterwards that the ego appropriates the act from which it was absent, and says "I have done this".
At the moment of acting there is only acting, without an actor.

Jean Klein



If we face a situation without any intention, free from fear and desire,
this openness paves the way for an intuition that will lead to a decision or an action in total harmony with that situation.
Such a decision may bring about an apparent change, but this change is not an escape from or an avoidance of the situation;
it doesn't originate from the person; it emanates from intelligence.

Francis Lucille



There is no place for effort in reality.
It is selfishness, due to self-identification with the body, that is the main problem and the cause of other problems.
And selfishness cannot be removed by effort, only by clear insight into its causes and effects.
Effort is a sign of conflict between incompatible desires. They should be seen as they are - then only they dissolve.

Nisargadatta Maharaj



Human effort consists in creating bondage for oneself,
clinging fast to it, and wanting to become free without giving up bondage itself.

Atmananda Krishna Menon

[dipayankar]

The human brain is the most powerful instrument ever to have existed on earth... The brain creates consciousness, it creates belief, it creates judgement. However let me reiterate it has nothing to do with an Universal TOE, except unravelling the mystery.

[not2too]

Originally Posted by dipayankar The human brain is the most powerful instrument ever to have existed on earth... The brain creates consciousness, it creates belief, it creates judgement. However let me reiterate it has nothing to do with an Universal TOE, except unravelling the mystery.

What creates the brain? What form would the brain take in the absence of consciousness?

Best,
not2too

[melanie]

Originally Posted by dipayankar The human brain is the most powerful instrument ever to have existed on earth... The brain creates consciousness, it creates belief, it creates judgement. However let me reiterate it has nothing to do with an Universal TOE, except unravelling the mystery.

Beliefs and judgements are transient thoughts, appearing in consciousness
along with the assumed identification with a 'a separate person present' ..
who thinks it is the principle acting agent of the '' belief and judgment ''
In reality there is no such separate 'entity' there at all.
There is only consciousness.
Within which the world and 'things' appear and disappear and are not separate from.
No-thing or Object is conscious in itself, ''consciousness is non- local with no centre''
So no mystery to unravel, an attempt to do so would be like trying to grasp and hold air in your hand.

It can be be quite difficult to let go of the 'you' that you thought was 'you'
but this is a natural addiction, for we are quite attached to ourselves.

melanie.



[quote]

You Are Not Even Conscious!
Remember that who you really are is the clear light of consciousness which shines on all the feelings and thoughts that arise,
but the thoughts and feelings are not themselves conscious.
You – the person you believe yourself to be – are not even conscious!
Consciousness is conscious, but the objects within it are not.
The body that you think of as your “self” is an object.
There is no consciousness residing in that object.
There is no consciousness residing in those thoughts and feelings.
There is no one home in that story!
Feelings come and go and are attached to, but they need not be.
Above all, none of that nonsense that arises needs to be acted on.
There is no one there for any action to affect!
The only “one” in the universe is already all taken care of for all eternity, and that one is you, the light of consciousness itself.
whatneverchanges.com

[melanie]

The world is compared to a dream, shown to be impermanent, to have no lasting happiness and so on.
Seeing these points, we might pause the fascination with appearances and start to see something else ...
''The Light of Consciousness'' in which it appears.
Consciousness itself is a passing appearance in a Deeper Reality ..
that is PRIOR to Consciousness.
thenaturalstate.org

[dipayankar]

Consciousness is a result of the brain and hence the absence of consciousness would not affect the brain in any way...

Originally Posted by not2too What creates the brain? What form would the brain take in the absence of consciousness? Best, not2too