[not2too]

Originally Posted by dipayankar Everybody has their own viewpoint. When I look at a ToE (physics), I exclude everything emotional and biological, because I believe that a ToE cannot contain metaphysics.

First - since when are emotions and biology metaphysics?
Second - Physics, which seeks to account for the physical universe, describes this universe in terms of mathematics. Numbers have no physical existence. The "laws of nature" have no physical existence either. Mathematics and "natural laws" seem to exist outside (beyond?) the physical universe of physics. Isn't one meaning of metaphysics "beyond physics"?

Best,
not2too

[r.p.bibra]

Originally Posted by dipayankar Brain is the mother of consciousness not the other way round

Dear Dip, if you had studied the anatomy of cells and human body/brain, you would not be giving too much importance to your 'brain'! ls. could send you a 'recording' by an eminent Prof.(ex-director of AIMS) via PM, on the subject, which will make many a thing simpler to understand. Dear, each cell of the body structure is already embodied with consciousness, much before the brain comes into picture! Why are so 'touchy' about the name "consciousness"? It is as much a scientific term as human brain, only its 'physical-existence' is yet beyond the grasp of the scientific community, but times are not far off when it would be a subject of secular curriculum. love.ls

[not2too]

"The observer, when he seems to himself to be observing a stone, is really, if physics is to be believed, observing the effects of the stone upon himself."
Bertrand Russell

Further,
not2too

[dleviwing]

Do you really believe existence requires an insignificant creature to observe it in order to be real? You all should note that science does not claim that if it cannot be observed and measured that it does not exist; only that we cannot KNOW.

BTW: Even scientists have philosophies they believe but you should not quote Philosophers as being scientist; they're not.

[not2too]

Originally Posted by dleviwing Do you really believe existence requires an insignificant creature to observe it in order to be real? You all should note that science does not claim that if it cannot be observed and measured that it does not exist; only that we cannot KNOW. BTW: Even scientists have philosophies they believe but you should not quote Philosophers as being scientist; they're not.

Remember one of the things Albert Einstein...a scientist, I believe...used to say...
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."

Best,
not2too

[not2too]

Originally Posted by dleviwing Do you really believe existence requires an insignificant creature to observe it in order to be real? You all should note that science does not claim that if it cannot be observed and measured that it does not exist; only that we cannot KNOW. BTW: Even scientists have philosophies they believe but you should not quote Philosophers as being scientist; they're not.

I, for one, am not saying that "existence requires an insignificant creature to observe it in order to be real". I'm not sure that humans are THAT insignificant, but that's beside the point. The point is that consciousness itself is elemental...primary. Individual human consciousness interacts with this background consciousness, as individual human bodies interact with gravity. As I'm sure you know, this is not just my view but is shared by a great many scientists...physicists...as well. e.g. Nick Herbert in Elemental Mind, makes this case, as does Stanley Sobottka, Emeritus Professor of Physics, University of Virginia in A Course In Consciousness, among many others.

Best,
not2too

[dleviwing]

Originally Posted by not2too Remember one of the things Albert Einstein...a scientist, I believe...used to say... "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."

Quoting Einstein’s sarcastic remark is quite appropriate; you should consider what you have in common with those it was directed at.

[not2too]

Originally Posted by dleviwing Quoting Einstein’s sarcastic remark is quite appropriate; you should consider what you have in common with those it was directed at.

I don't think Einstein was being sarcastic in that instance but, rather, ironic. From what I've read, his sense of humor could cut in many directions at once and was devastating...as was his humanity. I don't think he was being either sarcastic or ironic when he said,
"Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the Gods."

Best,
not2too

[melanie]

= not2too "Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the Gods."

Which prompts me to Quote ...

"If you want to make God laugh, tell Him your plans" .Old Proverb

[not2too]

I would like to return to the question which initiated this thread...namely, "What is a ToeQuest?" In my view, a true ToeQuest is not simply the search for a way to unify the various fragments of physical theory...not a GUT...but, rather, a wide open theory of EVERYTHING...not just a theory of part of everything....not just, as I stated earlier, a Physics of Everything...a POE.

It is obvious from all the back and forth regarding the primacy of consciousness vs. the primacy of matter on this site, and the nature of what a TRUE TOE should and should not include, that the nature and scope of the quest itself is an issue. I think there's room in this here town for both the consciousness gang and the matter gang...the TOEs and the POEs (from my perspective)...

...and, who knows...maybe if we interact with each other with respect rather than derision, something new will emerge. After all...we are all trying to fathom the same incredible mystery.

Best to all,
not2too