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Re: What Is A ToeQuest? Some Fragments...
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Re: What Is A ToeQuest? Some Fragments... - 02-19-2008, 12:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by not2too View Post
All of this, of course, is open ended and full of may-be…
Yes, Nature is open-ended in its future and its conditional variations.
But the source of a comprehensible Nature can only be of:
Oneness (not magic, metaphysics nor supernaturals) and is
definite (confined by its own former real/true happening).

Once we are able to pinpoint the Oneness with trustful philosophy and scientific reasonings, we can narrow down many may-be, at least in those fundamental levels.

Best Regards. Bottomlander
  
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Re: What Is A ToeQuest? Some Fragments...
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Re: What Is A ToeQuest? Some Fragments... - 02-19-2008, 12:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bottomlander View Post
Yes, Nature is open-ended in its future and its conditional variations.
But the source of a comprehensible Nature can only be of:
Oneness (not magic, metaphysics nor supernaturals) and is
definite (confined by its own former real/true happening).

Once we are able to pinpoint the Oneness with trustful philosophy and scientific reasonings, we can narrow down many may-be, at least in those fundamental levels.

Best Regards. Bottomlander
“The quest for certainty blocks the search for meaning. Uncertainty is the very condition to impel man to unfold his powers.”
Erich Fromm

Where there is great doubt, there will be great awakening; small doubt, small awakening, no doubt, no awakening.
Zen saying


Further,
not2too
  
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Re: What Is A ToeQuest? Some Fragments...
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Re: What Is A ToeQuest? Some Fragments... - 02-20-2008, 12:15 AM

Hi Mel... do you really believe that the mind is a seperate entity from the brain? Biologically somehow it doesnot make sense..


Quote:
Originally Posted by melanie View Post
Sorry about the lengthy reply Dip,
just make of this, how ever it appeals to you, with a pinch of salt

Does minds have a scientific validity?
not quite sure what is implied here but i'll say....
No because no-thing needs proof, the proof is self evident in
THIS appearing self- evident-ness .. which is it's only testimony
It is SEEN the one that sees .. is not separate from that which is seen.

As for science and philosophy these words are concepts
and have no meaning except as conceived.

The world appears through our senses on demand.

Thoughts are triggered by sensory data on demand causing 'us' to re- act to the data eg: movement.


A baby is conscious and aware, but it's mind has not kicked in yet
so it can have no identity .. the mind is the tool that creates
the illusion of a separate person, 'thoughts' creating an ID'entity'
before the mind .. there is no separation,
no awareness of a 'me' or world, only sensed and known instantly,
consciousness aware of [awareness presence] or [beingness]
the mind develops as more and more data is stored conceptual overlay,
causing the illusion of a 'me' a story is un-folding via memory/mind re-call
it is the mind that does this, thoughts turn into 'things'
and this only ever manifests in the immediate now moment.
Time being an illusion.

Consciousness arises in AWARENESS
via sensation sensing
giving rise to an apparent 'me' [phantom]
Consciousness born of sensation sensed.
Appearing in still silent AWARENESS


'We' apparently evolve via the mind this is the tool for growth,
although no-thing ever evolves it only appears to.
In this Conception.

These three aspects ...Awareness-Consciousness- Mind
Mutually arise together in concord with this ....
arising immediateness appearing and disappearing
happening and appearing through the mind body organism.
Creating a world .. a projection of itself.
In this eternal NOW.

Never moving
Never changing
only appearing to
'apparently'
All things appear in consciousness, mind re-cognizes data, and instantaneously
turns them to image ''things'
those 'things' are not separate from that which is imaging them.

So in theory there are no-things except as conceived.

Consciousness is how the mind body organism becomes aware of itself
The SELF aware of itself through consciousness

The MIND within the body organism is the TOOL for thought and reasoning not consciousness
The MIND is an aspect of consciousness,
consciousness is being AWARE of something ... ' i'm conscious of my being'
being conscious of something arises in awareness.
When in deep sleep there is no consciousness but there is awareness.
When we dream at night the dreams appear in our semi- consciousness
not in awareness .. when we slip into deep sleep [pure awareness]
there are no dreams .. for there is no-thing in awareness,
only in consciousness,does the world and things appear.


If we deduce matter down to subatomic / quark level it is no-'thing' .. but empty space
static and motionless.....[conceived data] how this is ? there is no-one to know.[mystery un-known] yet known. [one with the knowing]

The mind/thoughts causes movement/vibration/wave on demand within the stillness.

mel.
  
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Re: What Is A ToeQuest? Some Fragments...
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Re: What Is A ToeQuest? Some Fragments... - 02-20-2008, 03:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dipayankar View Post
Hi Mel... do you really believe that the mind is a seperate entity from the brain? Biologically somehow it doesnot make sense..
Mel says..."Consciousness is how the mind body organism becomes aware of itself. The SELF aware of itself through consciousness."

Here (and throughout) she refers to the "mind body organism". Some writers in the Advaita (and other) traditions refer to this unit this way, some reverse it to...body/mind organism, which is the way I usually use it. In any case, nothing stated here suggests a body - mind duality. Body and mind are not two.

not2too
  
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Re: What Is A ToeQuest? Some Fragments...
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Re: What Is A ToeQuest? Some Fragments... - 02-20-2008, 07:27 AM

Quote:
Hi Mel... do you really believe that the mind is a seperate entity from the brain? Biologically somehow it doesnot make sense..
Sorry dip,
It wasn't my intention to say they were separate.
Remember words are concepts/ symbols pointing to the already conceived WHOLE
So no-thing can ever be separate.
All THIS mutually arising,
'apparently' in AWARENESS and not separate from it.



mel.


'' People see God everyday, they just don't recognize Him ''

'' In his will is our peace ''


  
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Re: What Is A ToeQuest? Some Fragments...
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Re: What Is A ToeQuest? Some Fragments... - 02-21-2008, 03:01 AM

Thats what I thought it is, as said, mind is the result of the neurons firing together in Unison..


Quote:
Originally Posted by melanie View Post
Sorry dip,
It wasn't my intention to say they were separate.
Remember words are concepts/ symbols pointing to the already conceived WHOLE
So no-thing can ever be separate.
All THIS mutually arising,
'apparently' in AWARENESS and not separate from it.



mel.
  
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Re: What Is A ToeQuest? Some Fragments...
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Re: What Is A ToeQuest? Some Fragments... - 02-21-2008, 03:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dipayankar View Post
Thats what I thought it is, as said, mind is the result of the neurons firing together in Unison..
Yes so we are back to this again the firing neurons.
I have this link you all might be interested in......

http://www.enchantedmind.com/html/sc...tum_brain.html


[A QUOTE] ........regarding our mind/brain functioning.

the depth and breadth of 'conception' is unfathomable...

there is no end to 'experiencing' 'new experiences'... which are simply...

experiencing this one conception from different perspectives... as imaged through sensations...

like looking at a jewel from different angles... the jewel remains as it is... only the 'view' appears to change...

no 'end' that is... except instantly...

as the senses are stilled...

and instantly they may re-appear...

to tell whatever story 'you' spontaneously (without apparent cause)… choose...


isn't it amazing... all that seems to be stored and processed by all the computers in the world... is already 'in' consciousness...

for there are no 'computers'... except as conceived...

and yet... how paltry... in comparison to all the information 'encoded' in the conceptual universe... from beginning to end... though all space and all time...


'' People see God everyday, they just don't recognize Him ''

'' In his will is our peace ''


  
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Re: What Is A ToeQuest? Some Fragments...
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Re: What Is A ToeQuest? Some Fragments... - 02-21-2008, 08:16 AM

This is what I exactly said. Mind is the perception of the brain for that point in time..


Quote:
Originally Posted by melanie View Post
Yes so we are back to this again the firing neurons.
I have this link you all might be interested in......

http://www.enchantedmind.com/html/sc...tum_brain.html


[A QUOTE] ........regarding our mind/brain functioning.

the depth and breadth of 'conception' is unfathomable...

there is no end to 'experiencing' 'new experiences'... which are simply...

experiencing this one conception from different perspectives... as imaged through sensations...

like looking at a jewel from different angles... the jewel remains as it is... only the 'view' appears to change...

no 'end' that is... except instantly...

as the senses are stilled...

and instantly they may re-appear...

to tell whatever story 'you' spontaneously (without apparent cause)… choose...


isn't it amazing... all that seems to be stored and processed by all the computers in the world... is already 'in' consciousness...

for there are no 'computers'... except as conceived...

and yet... how paltry... in comparison to all the information 'encoded' in the conceptual universe... from beginning to end... though all space and all time...
  
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Re: What Is A ToeQuest? Some Fragments...
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Re: What Is A ToeQuest? Some Fragments... - 02-21-2008, 09:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dipayankar View Post
This is what I exactly said. Mind is the perception of the brain for that point in time..
Well i'm glad we got that straightened out then




Quote:
Hi Mel... do you really believe that the mind is a seperate entity from the brain? Biologically somehow it doesnot make sense..
Could i just ask why there was an assumption that the mind is a separate entity? from the brain...... was it how i worded my document?
just curious so that i can maybe present them better in the future....thanks

mel.


'' People see God everyday, they just don't recognize Him ''

'' In his will is our peace ''


  
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Re: What Is A ToeQuest? Some Fragments...
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Re: What Is A ToeQuest? Some Fragments... - 02-21-2008, 09:08 AM

Thats how it seemed actually. Your post seemed to point to the fact that the mind and brain are different..


Quote:
Originally Posted by melanie View Post
Well i'm glad we got that straightened out then






Could i just ask why there was an assumption that the mind is a separate entity? from the brain...... was it how i worded my document?
just curious so that i can maybe present them better in the future....thanks

mel.
  
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