[melanie]

Originally Posted by dipayankar Thats how it seemed actually. Your post seemed to point to the fact that the mind and brain are different..

ok fair enough dip,

but if you read my document again you will see i said the mind is an aspect of consciousness,
and that it develops as the senses are stimulated more and more through experiencing.

mel.

[dipayankar]

So how would you define consciousness??

Originally Posted by melanie ok fair enough dip, but if you read my document again you will see i said the mind is an aspect of consciousness, and that it develops as the senses are stimulated more and more through experiencing. mel.

[melanie]

Originally Posted by dipayankar So how would you define consciousness??

How would i define consciousness ?

I don't know where the life force comes from, only that it does appear in the mind body organism illuminating/animating that form.
It is only through a conscious being that there is any awareness at all....
everything is hidden from awareness, until consciousness illuminates / animates it into form or things.

Awareness sensing sensation .. giving rise to consciousness .. giving rise to mind[self aware] or conscious of my being .... being aware of itself.

Awareness Consciousness Mind body Organism all arising mutually as THIS
self evident IS-ness ....plain to see.

To ask what it is is impossible to answer, for it is inconceivable, yet 'apparently' not.

mel.

[dipayankar]

The issue with the question of mind, consciousness, brain, is a question that cannot be answered. I guess we leave it at that and actually look at ToEQuest...

Originally Posted by melanie How would i define consciousness ? I don't know where the life force comes from, only that it does appear in the mind body organism illuminating/animating that form. It is only through a conscious being that there is any awareness at all.... everything is hidden from awareness, until consciousness illuminates / animates it into form or things. Awareness sensing sensation .. giving rise to consciousness .. giving rise to mind[self aware] or conscious of my being .... being aware of itself. Awareness Consciousness Mind body Organism all arising mutually as THIS self evident IS-ness ....plain to see. To ask what it is is impossible to answer, for it is inconceivable, yet 'apparently' not. mel.

[melanie]

Originally Posted by dipayankar The issue with the question of mind, consciousness, brain, is a question that cannot be answered. I guess we leave it at that and actually look at ToEQuest...

Well i suppose it could be answered, in that consciousness had to be there first
and everything that 'you' and 'i' see appears in consciousness,
including the concept of 'you' and 'i'
remembering that matter is empty space
when deduced down it's quark level,
but yeah let the ToE Questers find that out
what a good idea except there is no- one actually here to find anything out at all,
so we could spend an eternity searching for ourselves, when strangely enough we were 'apparently' here all the time.

Plop, there it is!
Nothing else than that, which is empty of matter, fills all corners of the universe!
Mountains, rivers, the entire world, you and all, they manifest the body of the One.
(Buddhist verse)

Here and not here simultaneously ... what unimaginable mystery..

mel.

[melanie]

Originally Posted by dipayankar The issue with the question of mind, consciousness, brain, is a question that cannot be answered. I guess we leave it at that and actually look at ToEQuest...

Benedictory Verse Addressed to the Self

1 May the unique Self, which appears as various objects in the same way that gold takes the shape of the mould into which it is cast,
be our support and guide for composing this work, Sorupa Saram, which proclaims that the nature of the world is only consciousness.

Text

2 Since the three kinds of differences do not exist, everything is only consciousness.
The certainty of the existence of consciousness is stated in this way.

Since there is nothing at all that is different from consciousness, the five elements,
along with the five senses and the five organs of sense, all these are consciousness only.
Whatever is in the beginning, in the middle and in the end - all these are also consciousness. The indescribable illusion is also consciousness.
The one who perceives everything and the act of perceiving are also consciousness.

3 Question: Is there a logical way of concluding that everything is consciousness alone?

Answer: Yes, there is.

All the world's diversity, which derives from the misperceptions of the mind and which appears to be real -
is it not the witnessing consciousness alone?
Hence, everything - beginning with liberation and including purity and impurity, joy and misery, that which is and that which is not - is only being.

[melanie]

.. the beginningless Brahman, ...
can be called neither being nor nonbeing.
It is both near and far, both within and without every creature;
it moves and is unmoving. In its subtlety it is beyond comprehension.
It is indivisible, yet appears divided in separate creatures.
Know it to be the creator, the preserver, and the destroyer.
Dwelling in every heart, it is beyond darkness.
It is called the light of lights,
the object and goal of knowledge,
and knowledge itself.


The Bhagavad Gita'

[dipayankar]

I am not very conversant with any religion, however yes matter is vacuum if you drill down to the Plank level. However in that vacuum, you do see a lot of particles pop-up to balance the positive and negative energy..

Originally Posted by melanie Well i suppose it could be answered, in that consciousness had to be there first and everything that 'you' and 'i' see appears in consciousness, including the concept of 'you' and 'i' remembering that matter is empty space when deduced down it's quark level, but yeah let the ToE Questers find that out what a good idea except there is no- one actually here to find anything out at all, so we could spend an eternity searching for ourselves, when strangely enough we were 'apparently' here all the time. Plop, there it is! Nothing else than that, which is empty of matter, fills all corners of the universe! Mountains, rivers, the entire world, you and all, they manifest the body of the One. (Buddhist verse) Here and not here simultaneously ... what unimaginable mystery.. mel.

[not2too]

The following concepts, like all concepts, cannot describe Reality, but, unlike most concepts, they point to Reality.

1. The premise: Consciousness is all there is. Another word for Consciousness is the impersonal, yet intimate, I.

2. The conclusions:

I am not an object or entity.
Objects and entities are never real.
Whatever is supposed to happen will happen. Whatever is not supposed to happen will not happen. There is no doer, so there is no choice.
The entire manifestation is an expression of Love.

3. The practice: Don’t believe this—look and see it for yourself!

From: A Course In Consciousness
http://faculty.virginia.edu/consciousness/
I have found this presentation very informative to this type of discussion.

Best,
not2too

[melanie]

Originally Posted by dipayankar I am not very conversant with any religion, however yes matter is vacuum if you drill down to the Plank level. However in that vacuum, you do see a lot of particles pop-up to balance the positive and negative energy..

There is no difference between Consciousness and the way IT appears as matter. All there is, is Consciousness.

'Objective appearances' are also available in dreams where it is perhaps easier to see that solidity and fluidity manifest in and out of consciousness only.

BTW religion is just another word for science, it's all pure conceptual and meaningless, except as conceived.