[melanie]

Originally Posted by dipayankar Do we need to really look into consciousness?? It is metaphysics and ToE is physics thus these twains need to be kept seperate.. I think you are mistaking ToE as a ToE of the earth. The ToE should surpass the earth and the earthly beings and encompass the entire Universe. The realm of consciousness does not trespass the boundaries of the earth..

Dip, i was wondering, you say consciousness, is metaphysics ... and then you say TOE is physics.
In theory that is like saying this banana is yellow and that blade of grass is green.



There is no ... 'out there' ... all that 'appears to be 'out there'
is just a projection of itself ...
the 'apparent' 'you' that is being aware of 'out there'
is it self aware of self. The 'out there' is the illusion. IT is 'apparent' only.


Consciousness is not bound to the earthly realm.
IT is the all encompassing, all pervading, all knowing [omnipresent] universe.
Every-thing is conscious, yet all 'things' have no substance or reality. They are dream stuff 'appearing' in consciousness or awareness.

Just like when 'you' dream at night the images and objects have no substance, the dream and dreamer are ONE

There are no boundaries, or separateness to be found, ( IT ) .. reality has no reference point, it is seamless.
The eye that is looking at the star in the night sky,
that star is not separate from that which is looking at it.
It and every-'thing' is the SEEN
This picture or story is 'appearing' all at once instantaneously in awareness.
In this ever present NOW as eternal presence.
Although the illusion of time does appear to stop everything happening all at once.
Time and space are also 'appearing' as part of the illusion of this 'apparent' realness.

IT is not divided up amongst creatures perceived for no-thing perceived can perceive ..
perceived and perceiver are One.

There is nothing out side of awareness with their 'own brains' giving them perception including the i-dea of a separate perceiver, or a 'me'
for there is only One reality and this reality is perceiving this NOW .. (ONE with the KNOWING (Conceived) WHOLE
undivided and aware ,observer and observed are One.

In knowing one thing all things are known,all that is known is ever unchanged only ''appearing'' to change.

melanie.

[dipayankar]

Okay let me start by asking.. between the Sun and Earth, which is a more powerful entity? And why?

Originally Posted by melanie Dip, i was wondering, you say consciousness, is metaphysics ... and then you say TOE is physics. In theory that is like saying this banana is yellow and that blade of grass is green. There is no ... 'out there' ... all that 'appears to be 'out there' is just a projection of itself ... the 'apparent' 'you' that is being aware of 'out there' is it self aware of self. The 'out there' is the illusion. IT is 'apparent' only. Consciousness is not bound to the earthly realm. IT is the all encompassing, all pervading, all knowing [omnipresent] universe. Every-thing is conscious, yet all 'things' have no substance or reality. They are dream stuff 'appearing' in consciousness or awareness. Just like when 'you' dream at night the images and objects have no substance, the dream and dreamer are ONE There are no boundaries, or separateness to be found, ( IT ) .. reality has no reference point, it is seamless. The eye that is looking at the star in the night sky, that star is not separate from that which is looking at it. It and every-'thing' is the SEEN This picture or story is 'appearing' all at once instantaneously in awareness. In this ever present NOW as eternal presence. Although the illusion of time does appear to stop everything happening all at once. Time and space are also 'appearing' as part of the illusion of this 'apparent' realness. IT is not divided up amongst creatures perceived for no-thing perceived can perceive .. perceived and perceiver are One. There is nothing out side of awareness with their 'own brains' giving them perception including the i-dea of a separate perceiver, or a 'me' for there is only One reality and this reality is perceiving this NOW .. (ONE with the KNOWING (Conceived) WHOLE undivided and aware ,observer and observed are One. In knowing one thing all things are known,all that is known is ever unchanged only ''appearing'' to change. melanie.

[melanie]

There are no reference points or measurements to define reality.
Except as conceived in this dream, all 'things' 'objects' including earth suns and stars etc, are 'apparent'
The awareness that is appearing AS 'YOU' and 'ME' sees the objects
but it is not separate from the objects.
Subject and Object are ONE in THIS...
undefinable, indescribable, unavoidable, unimaginable mystery,
There is no-one here to even begin to fathom it out.
The assumed independent 'i' person can try, but he will never succeed
for the simple fact that he/she is only a temporal 'appearance'' he doesn't exist.
All THIS is arising in consciousness, and not separate from,
subject and object are one, the one does not know itself it is inconceivable,
and yet ''apparently'' conceived.

Things are not what they seem, nor are they otherwise.

i think i've just repeated what i said above!!
nevermind.lol

melanie.

[not2too]

Originally Posted by dipayankar Okay let me start by asking.. between the Sun and Earth, which is a more powerful entity? And why?

Let's say you have an extremely vivid dream in which both the Sun and the Earth appear and then you wake up and remember the dream. Does either your dream Sun or dream Earth have any power? Are they entities?

Best,
not2too

[dipayankar]

Dear Melanie, even if we take ourselves out of this picture, these things will remain and function exactly the same way as they do when we are present. Hence we are irrelevant if we take the Universal context..

Originally Posted by melanie There are no reference points or measurements to define reality. Except as conceived in this dream, all 'things' 'objects' including earth suns and stars etc, are 'apparent' The awareness that is appearing AS 'YOU' and 'ME' sees the objects but it is not separate from the objects. Subject and Object are ONE in THIS... undefinable, indescribable, unavoidable, unimaginable mystery, There is no-one here to even begin to fathom it out. The assumed independent 'i' person can try, but he will never succeed for the simple fact that he/she is only a temporal 'appearance'' he doesn't exist. All THIS is arising in consciousness, and not separate from, subject and object are one, the one does not know itself it is inconceivable, and yet ''apparently'' conceived. Things are not what they seem, nor are they otherwise. i think i've just repeated what i said above!! nevermind.lol melanie.

[melanie]

Dipayankar : Dear Melanie, even if we take ourselves out of this picture, these things will remain and function exactly the same way as they do when we are present. Hence we are irrelevant if we take the Universal context..

Dip, we can't take ourselves out of the picture, it is the assumed 'separate entity' that thinks that.

Form will always function as form in exactly the same way, as 'you' so rightly stated: That is unavoidable:
when 'we' realize no-thing is either dead nor alive, 'we' will awaken to the eternal beginningless endless causeless reality.

As Ken Wilber wrote: REAL-ization "Dissolving the boundary between emptiness and form and thus awakening as all form, endlessly."

Form being emptiness / emptiness being form ... forever, form cannot escape form, it may transmute but it will always be form.

Form can never be measured, IT appears in awareness.
The mind want's to grasp and measure it's reality.
Which is first and foremost Primary Field Awareness.
Out of which the 'things' 'objects' appear including the assumed 'i' person.
The mind is not able to grasp THAT in which it appears.
The mind appears in Awareness like a fish appears in water.
The mind thinks it is aware, but it is the other way around.
There is awareness of the mind.
Something is aware of the mind.
The mind believes,pretends to be the acting principle,
the one who is in control.
Science sees dead matter evolving into intelligent life,
while to advaita non-dual perspective there is only
IT appearing AS this whole manifestation.
The whole manifestation is appearing all at once,
personally i don't think it could be any other way.
Because the Primary Field Awareness had to be first
out of which all form arises IN ... ie every-thing is a thought form.

melanie.

[melanie]

Originally Posted by dipayankar Do we need to really look into consciousness?? It is metaphysics and ToE is physics thus these twains need to be kept seperate..

In the attempt to bring consciousness into science,
rather than keep the two separate,
You are attempting to bring value into a somewhat valueless technological world view.


mel.

[neutralino]

Originally Posted by melanie Dip, i was wondering, you say consciousness, is metaphysics ... and then you say TOE is physics. In theory that is like saying this banana is yellow and that blade of grass is green.

What does this last phrase mean?

Anyway, I agree with dipayankar, here. Consciousness is, at best metaphysics, however it should not be said that a theory of everything is automatically physical. When a theory of everything agrees with observations then it is science, until then, such theories are mathematical conjecture.

[melanie]

Originally Posted by neutralino What does this last phrase mean? Anyway, I agree with dipayankar, here. Consciousness is, at best metaphysics, however it should not be said that a theory of everything is automatically physical. When a theory of everything agrees with observations then it is science, until then, such theories are mathematical conjecture.

Originally Posted by melanie Dip, i was wondering, you say consciousness, is metaphysics ... and then you say TOE is physics. In theory that is like saying this banana is yellow and that blade of grass is green.

What does the last phrase mean ?

thank-you! .. yes, it denotes the meaningless meaning of the statements.

Including mine

Each the other and the ONE Love dreaming differences where there are none including this.



I have no way of looking at myself .. UGK

[not2too]

I reiterate my title for this thread...What is a Toequest? Some fragments...
I am going off in search of some more of the fragments for awhile, hopefully to return with a puzzle...some pieces still missing, of course (I doubt we'll ever find them all)...that's beginning to look like something.

Further,
not2too