[joshua]

Originally Posted by analog I say the warpage/density increase/condensation of space (unstructured randomly moving EM waves of aether) by means of time (transpired/elapsed motion), as the destructive interference becomes constructive, gives rise to the formation/condensation of matter (structured uniformly moving autonomous volumes of aether); thus, any loss of uniform motion once matter becomes autonomously structured causes the process to reverse; whereby emitting unstructured EM waves as space once again expands. I think you would view this as gravitational waves which give rise to time, and if you were to surf uniformly to one as it left the Earth, then you wouldn't catch the one in front of you and no other one emitted by the Earth would pass you by; you wouldn't receive informational change by means of EM waves. I see no problem with this thought experiment, but, in my opinion, absolute time is still a product of absolute motion, and the linear acceleration of a massive object to such a velocity as to surf an EM wave would cause the further condensation of that object due to uniform linear motion as it neared the velocity of the EM wave, which is why the clock dilates along with its increments of measure (relative time).

Problems I see- (off the cuff)

E-M force strength cannot be gravity as it is obvious that the strenghts and characteristic effects are uniquely different. Also the E-M waves are dipole and are/can be charge related. Time and space are not charge related or effected. A big problem for you I think?

Void, as stated before, void is a paradox unto itself because if it describes something than it is not actually a void, and if it describes nothing and the concept of nothing means to not exist then there can't be a void. Also as a rule absorbable waves cannot propagate in a void of nothing, they need a medium. Sound, water waves, earthquake.

Yet E-M waves are absorbable so don't they need a real medium if the same logic is to apply?

I agree that there is an absolute time and motion, but my definition of each is uniquely different than yours.

Overall absolute time cannot be measured because we cannot exactly know when the big bang started, why? this is assuming there was a big bang which I do.

Because we measure time as a function of E-M radiation decay, a process thar started at the big bang's ( I just realized that I never described it to anyone in these terms before so I need to coin the event properly ) force creation and stabolization barrier or "Event Barrier" .

Now, since each discrete quanta of bound matter has its own E-M field and since everytime we Understood this or that to be a basic uint of the building block of matter, in your example the space becoming matter, we have found through high energy collisions that things still decay, I have proposed that even E-M radiation decays a step further into a monopole wave, both ether and void (as you say).
This way constructive and destructive wave interferences still apply as radiation emitted from a source and no new rules need to be invented that make or may not be true. If wave were not continiously emitted thenwave synchronization would have been finalized very soon after the big bang.

The two actions, one the continous emission of gravitational waves from all matter and the initial force from the big bang leading to the increasing accelerating decreasing mass is the basis for both time and space, space with out void. it is the fundamental reason that relativity, gravity, acceleration all relate and it is the reason we have a beginning middle and end to time and space both of wich have a starting point, and "event barrier" which is the way we measure absolute time and space, not from the big bang beginning but from the decay of E-M radiation.
So in conclusion, the concepts of absolute and relative time and space, the constant speed of light, the reason and mechanism for gravity, the reason for inflation, the reason for the universe speeding up, the reason for black holes evaporating, the reason all the physics laws exist and the math works is that all matter decays naturally into the gravitational wave creating three actions through this wave decay. Time is the continious energy transfer of the process, space is the area/ volume of this process and gravitational wave synchronization is the reason the universe is the way it is, changing continiously from a beginning to a middle to an end.

Elvis has......

[analog]

Josh (Elvis),

In my opinion, the only real disagreement we have is the unidirectional universe (your view) vs. the bidirectional universe (my view). Most all of the functions you enjoy patting yourself on the back for explaining to me can be found in my views also. We perhaps see them slightly different and mostly are just using different terminology.

As I've stated before, the void is external to the aether, and within the aether/our universe there is no void. The void is moot/debatable and it is merely used to allow for a better visualization of absolute linear motion and velocity (one degree of freedom); whereby allowing the fundamental aether to be visualized as having linear motion, whereby allowing for the conservation of motion through the spectrum of random to uniform. If your philosophy won't allow you to imagine this then take it out, but I feel it is appropriate to allow for the best visualization.

In my opinion, absolute time is conserved and measured every frame of motion, because it is the elapsed motion and the same amount of which happens every definable interval; it is the varying directions, whether random or uniform, in which this takes place that defines our observable world/universe. The total amount of motion that has ever taken place is the unanswerable question, but we don't need to know that answer to have measurable relative time within our universe; we just need to know how much motion/time takes place from definable interval to definable interval; just as the density of structured matter is measured from definable volume to definable volume, and the acceleration of structured matter which dictates direction within a definable volume gives rise to Relativity.

[joshua]

Hey Tim,
I guess I did pat myself on the back with that Elvis joke, sorry. I poured 720lbs. of cement right before I texted you and was a little dehydrated maybe that is the excuse I should use for being an comical ass. Anyhow if it keeps up I'll report myself.
Anyhow, the way I approached the forces of nature with the central question, " Is there a way conceptionally and mathmatically to understand nature, the physics, the forces, the observations and how do they relate in an understandable way to the universe that we live in.
I have explained briefly to you that I have found a way, mechanically, to show the nature of matter in three dimensions. I have explained it in terms of current observations, physics law, and simular components of observable nature.
It is true that we are approaching nature from opposite ways. I approach nature as if liquid water is evaporating into humidity and you approach nature as if humidity is condensing into liquid water.
With my approach, I can clearly explain the nature of matter with mechanical type examples. My theory is simply stated, "all matter decays naturally from E-M radiation into a monopole gravitational wave. Time, space and gravitational wave synchronization are wave functions of this action".
All physics is derived from this simple and I believe correct understanding even the oddities such as a constant speed of light, quantum teleportation, an increasingly expanding universe, black hole evaporation, quantum independence of gravitation, inflationary theory, absolute and relative time, and gravity too.
What is interesting to me is that I worked six years in isolation just to play catch up and understand and once I saw everything I was and still am supprised how people hang on to false belief systems to the point of not believing hard data that proves them wrong. I also find it interesting how not only has this understanding not easily caught on but the time people take to bait and switch me with "hate the messenger" type of conversational replys is beyond my ability to make time.
I do think you are on the right approach and personally I think if you turn your thinking inside out then you have it. I do congradulate you are your efforts to endulge me with out sidetracking and I appreciate you for the stimulation and imagination even though you are the not the originator of the work you discuss. Maybe because of that you may be able to be a little more objective and see that the shoe doesn't fit, or maybe you have adapted too well and are in a state of delusion which most of us are and cannot escape the theory with the realities which contradict. The point of a theory is to explain the universe in terms that we can all someday understand, even Einstein came up short, or we wouldn't be talking now.
Thank you again for your time and conversation,
C. Michael Turner (Joshua, Doc, Elvis)

[analog]

Originally Posted by joshua E-M force strength cannot be gravity as it is obvious that the strenghts and characteristic effects are uniquely different. Also the E-M waves are dipole and are/can be charge related. Time and space are not charge related or effected. A big problem for you I think?

The motion of space (unstructured matter) is the mechanism for attraction and repulsion between autonomous volumes of structured matter as it is merely a measurable effect of the condensation and expansion of the fundamental aether by means of uniform and random motion.

This would not be possible in a unidirectional view such as your's, whereby structured matter could decay to form perceived space (unstructured matter) as you admit to, but perceived space couldn't be reformed into structured matter, which would allow for a bidirectional view such as mine, whereby I think both are possible depending on the state of absolute motion and direction.

I would ask that you explain the mechanism of attraction and repulsion as it relates to your views. How do two autonomous volumes of structured matter seperate and come together due to these phenomena? What is charge actually a measurement of? What is temperature actually a measurement of?

Originally Posted by joshua Also as a rule absorbable waves cannot propagate in a void of nothing, they need a medium. Sound, water waves, earthquake. Yet E-M waves are absorbable so don't they need a real medium if the same logic is to apply?

The aether was said to propagate through the void with absolute linear motion which causes it to condense and become ultra solid. As uniform linear motion slows, expansion occurs perpendicular to the direction of propagation. The waves propagate through the aether, which is their medium, now that we are in a state of expansion.

I agree that there is an absolute time and motion, but my definition of each is uniquely different than yours.

Fair enough. We can agree to disagree.

Originally Posted by joshua Overall absolute time cannot be measured because we cannot exactly know when the big bang started, why? this is assuming there was a big bang which I do. Because we measure time as a function of E-M radiation decay, a process thar started at the big bang's ( I just realized that I never described it to anyone in these terms before so I need to coin the event properly ) force creation and stabolization barrier or "Event Barrier".

I measure time as a function of absolute motion, and randomized direction of absolute motion at a quantum resolution of the aether starting at the bang/collision/event.

Originally Posted by joshua So in conclusion, the concepts of absolute and relative time and space, the constant speed of light, the reason and mechanism for gravity, the reason for inflation, the reason for the universe speeding up, the reason for black holes evaporating, the reason all the physics laws exist and the math works is that all matter decays naturally into the gravitational wave creating three actions through this wave decay. Time is the continious energy transfer of the process, space is the area/ volume of this process and gravitational wave synchronization is the reason the universe is the way it is, changing continiously from a beginning to a middle to an end.

If you hold true to a unidirectional view, then what happens in your world when a massive body accelerates? Does it exhibit length contraction? And if so, when it decelerates, how does it regain its original measurable dimensions?

[analog]

Originally Posted by joshua It is true that we are approaching nature from opposite ways. I approach nature as if liquid water is evaporating into humidity and you approach nature as if humidity is condensing into liquid water.

I actually approach nature as if it went from a theoretical ultra solid ice cube (absolute uniform linear motion with one degree of freedom/absolute zero temperature and absolute linear velocity) to steam (chaotic random motion with chaotic varying degrees of freedom/temperature and chaotic linear velocity/unstructured matter) due to an initial event/bang/collision, which caused linear deceleration allowing for expansion, and any perception of autonomous volumes of condensed liquid water (autonomous structured matter at varying collective temperatures/degrees of freedom, which is relative to their current linear velocity) within the surrounding medium of steam is manifest due to the attempt to reaccelerate to absolute uniform linear motion with one degree of freedom/absolute zero temperature and absolute linear velocity (an ice cube) by means of the property of "self-affinity" (a term Dave coined and defined).

Originally Posted by joshua I also find it interesting how not only has this understanding not easily caught on but the time people take to bait and switch me with "hate the messenger" type of conversational replys is beyond my ability to make time.

I'm not sure if this was pointed at me, but I am merely exchanging ideas with you. I don't expect to convert you to my views and I hope you understand if I don't rush to be converted by your views. I feel we both have a more complete view than most and both are worthy of conversation.

Originally Posted by joshua I do think you are on the right approach and personally I think if you turn your thinking inside out then you have it. I do congradulate you are your efforts to endulge me with out sidetracking and I appreciate you for the stimulation and imagination even though you are the not the originator of the work you discuss. Maybe because of that you may be able to be a little more objective and see that the shoe doesn't fit, or maybe you have adapted too well and are in a state of delusion which most of us are and cannot escape the theory with the realities which contradict. The point of a theory is to explain the universe in terms that we can all someday understand, even Einstein came up short, or we wouldn't be talking now.

Again, I'm not sure how to take this. Thanks for the perceived compliments I guess, however I do grow tired of being looked down upon by someone who I feel places themself and their views above me and mine.

I debate my views to learn and share information and that's the only way it's intended, and I respect anyone who has taken the time to try to understand our world. I would suggest that you didn't imply that I'm delusional as I feel that both of our views probably need a lot of work if they are ever meant to explain "Everything".

I can accept that, can you?

It's true that I am not the originator of this work, but I do have a predisposition to understanding it due to my original work being so similar, which allows me to probe both views. I can often answer questions to Dave's views by understanding mine, and vice versa, and I'm sure that he doesn't share in all of my interpretations, but I think he probably respects my effort.

I'm sure he would be participating more in this conversation if he were able right now, and I know for certain that his comments would do a much better job of debating this framework than those I currently can provide. He has a much broader range of knowledge and experience than I do, as I am limited to only my imagination and logical reasoning, which unfortunately doesn't get me far.

I hope we can continue to exchange ideas with a mutual respect, because it forces me to think, which I feel furthers my views.

regards,

Timothy S. Lester (analog)

[joshua]

Originally Posted by analog The motion of space (unstructured matter) is the mechanism for attraction and repulsion between autonomous volumes of structured matter as it is merely a measurable effect of the condensation and expansion of the fundamental aether by means of uniform and random motion. This would not be possible in a unidirectional view such as your's, whereby structured matter could decay to form perceived space (unstructured matter) as you admit to, but perceived space couldn't be reformed into structured matter, which would allow for a bidirectional view such as mine, whereby I think both are possible depending on the state of absolute motion and direction. I would ask that you explain the mechanism of attraction and repulsion as it relates to your views. How do two autonomous volumes of structured matter seperate and come together due to these phenomena? What is charge actually a measurement of? What is temperature actually a measurement of? 1). Dipole, constructive and destructive interferences. 2). binding surface of matter, (remember, photons- with no charge also have an E-M field). 3). the vibration of matter due to the slow decay process of gravitational wave, underlying process and due to the constructive and destrictive wave interference patterns of E-M radiation, surface process. The aether was said to propagate through the void with absolute linear motion which causes it to condense and become ultra solid. As uniform linear motion slows, expansion occurs perpendicular to the direction of propagation. The waves propagate through the aether, which is their medium, now that we are in a state of expansion. 1). Gravitational waves, monopole, are the aether, generated from all matter. Fair enough. We can agree to disagree. I measure time as a function of absolute motion, and randomized direction of absolute motion at a quantum resolution of the aether starting at the bang/collision/event. 1). Time- process of change, underlying process of matter decaying into space, via the gravitational; wave. If you hold true to a unidirectional view, then what happens in your world when a massive body accelerates? Does it exhibit length contraction? And if so, when it decelerates, how does it regain its original measurable dimensions?

1). Reference frame time dialation and lorenz contraction. Acceleration is in the eye of the reference frame. If the massive body is compared to a smaller body rather than a larger body and you are taking the point of the smaller body being stationary then it would be time contraction and lorenz dialation

@ and no, nothing was meant towards you, just remembering old posts...

[joshua]

The problem is that the overall universe is a one way street with a fluid mosic of traffic and there is only one truth. Although I respect your opinion, I cannot see how you understand space to condense with out time being able to run backward in some instant. Time is a forward process and is not a measure of the backward process, doesn't add up.

[analog]

Originally Posted by joshua The problem is that the overall universe is a one way street with a fluid mosic of traffic and there is only one truth. Although I respect your opinion, I cannot see how you understand space to condense with out time being able to run backward in some instant. Time is a forward process and is not a measure of the backward process, doesn't add up.

You speak of time as though it is an infallible entity which only knows one direction, but that isn't how I see it. I feel as though it is infallible only due to the fact that it causes the same amount of change from definable frame to definable frame, and the direction of this change as seen by the expansion and contraction of the aether is in no way a suggestion that time is running backwards.

The property of fundamental matter (aether) which allows for a two way street is the mechanism for all of our observable phenomena such as the perceived forces, relativity, etc.

If we gave the aether a quantum resolution as if it were made of a vibrating particulate structure whose motions effected the motions of the whole in the form of waves due to the proximity of each being relative to the whole due to collisions causing the vibration, then the contraction/condensation which manifests autonomous structured matter is merely seen as an increase in quantum particle density caused by uniform motion/angular momentum (a decrease in degrees of freedom/decrease in temperature), whereby linear acceleration (also uniform motion) affects the proximity of this density by means of imposing linear direction thus causing a proportional decrease in vibrational frequency in other varying directions.

When a loss in uniform motion allows for the expansion of the surrounding fabric (aether) the quantum proximity merely increases as the quantum particles gain degrees of freedom/temperature increases. The shared direction that once caused uniform motion, which caused condensation, has been lost to the more randomly moving medium of "space".

If we were to stop/freeze all motion and change frames from definable interval to definable interval, then the exact same amount of movement has taken place from frame to frame (absolulte time due to absolute motion), but certain definable volumes have had more motion taking place within them relative to others (relative time due to relative motion); the motion density varies throughout the whole and is proportional to the quantum particle density, which gives rise to structured and unstructured matter/volumes of aether (certain volumes contain more change, thus more quantum particles from frame to frame).

By this definition, changes in density have nothing to do with reversing the arrow of time. The same amount of motion will take place from frame to frame no matter what, it is the proximity/density caused by varying direction which changes from frame to frame. Being as all quantum particles are moving, condensation is more of a shared trajectory.

You say relative motion is at the mercy of absolute time, which only allows for forward motion. I say relative time is at the mercy of absolute motion in any direction, which only allows for forward time.

[joshua]

Infallible Entity? Time? I never thought about characterizing it that way. But Time is bonded to motion, they are inseperable. Remember I see time as a wave function of matter decay (Absolute Motion) of all matter. Remember even a neutral photon has an Electro magnetic field. So my theory is not charge dependent, but field dependent. Also time has been shown to exist as a flow and not a quanta through many astrophysics studies such as gravitational lensing.

In your understanding,
I don't see the following being explained very well. Time being a one way street by observation, inflationary theory, increase in acceleration in the universe, relative time and space ( time and space being slowed or accelerated), gravity.

To me it is so nice to see the universe as examples of the laws we see everyday around us. I do see the universe decreasing from three to one dimension as all matter decays from particles to synchronizing waves.

I see the fundamental forces as multipoles and the decay of those forces to a monoploe. With my understanding, everything works and is confirmed by the laws of physics and observation. I don't see entirely with your description of the nature of degrees of freedom, now if you were to understand that the overall degrees of freedom were decreasing, the reason space is flattening, Gravitational wave synchronization, then we would be on the same page.

[dleviwing]

Joshua;
You are trying to understand Tim’s explanations using false assumptions that you have accepted as being true. There are no “fundamental forces”, only “fundamental substance” with the properties of motion and bonding that produce the phenomena of the forces. You cannot have force without the motions of matter that produces it. The only way to comprehend the forces is to understand the absolutes that Tim is attempting to convey to you.