[analog]

Originally Posted by joshua

first you have to understand the mechanism and the physical laws, parameters, of the system, in this case the universe. Can motion completely stop? What causes it in the first place? What happens when energy is completely used up? What is left? If you can answer these questions then you know the answer.

When motion stops only space is left, one dimensional space, and the real question is, "Does one dimensional space, space with out energy, collapse into a bound particle and start the process of gravitational wave decay all over again?

Hello Joshua,

I don't feel as though our views are as different as you might think as I perceive certain similarities between the two. We do however use different mechanisms to explain ourselves.

In my framework energy is not the catalyst for motion, as is the case with the standard model, which creates phenomena to explain the phenomena it just created; absolute motion is the catalyst for perceived energy. Thus, I've answered those questions you posed as they pertain to my own framework.

Perhaps, much confusion comes due to us trying to explain the motions of something that only knows how to move. It is the way in which it moves that is the point of research; not why or how. Why must everyone attribute a companion to fundamental matter that would allow it to move; whereby, when that companion isn't present, no motion? This would lead to the need for varying types of "energy" due to the varying distance scales at which one is perceived as effective and another is not, as is seen by the standard model.

In my views, absolute motion takes place at any and all resolutions within the fundamental aether, and it is the way in which this takes place that gives rise to the belief of the varying entities of energy that would have to apparently be present if fundamental matter needed help to just move.

Perceived "space" between autonomous volumes of the aether (structured matter) are merely volumes which are unstructured and contain a greater amount of randomized motion. Just as random motions can become uniform giving rise to structured matter from perceived "space"; the uniform motions that define structured matter can also become randomized giving rise to the perceived creation of "space". Within the aether there is no void as I see it.

Perhaps, you veiw this as potential energy being converted to kinetic energy, as there is much potential for spatial expansion due to the condensed state of structured matter by means of uniform motion having the ability to become randomized and affect/expand the entire aether. This would imply that complete random motion within the aether would have symmetry and no autonomous volumes (structured matter) would be present. This could be interpreted as an elongation and flattening of "space" as if all of the perceived "energy" was used up.



regards,

Tim

[dipayankar]

Probably just before the Big Bang in a cyclic Universe, we might have had a scenario where gravity of some other kind of force would have made the motion to cease due to the increase in density, leaving no room for movement... Just my thoughts.

Originally Posted by analog

Hey Dip,

I don't think it's possible for motion to cease. It is the randomized direction of the absolute motion that causes the fundamental Aether to increase expansion in seemingly all directions and to decrease in linear uniform motion and velocity. The fundamental Aether will move, it is how and where (direction) autonomous volumes of it moves that is the key.

regards,

Tim

[joshua]

Originally Posted by dipayankar

Probably just before the Big Bang in a cyclic Universe, we might have had a scenario where gravity of some other kind of force would have made the motion to cease due to the increase in density, leaving no room for movement... Just my thoughts.

If you could image that the universe is running on the on a concept of bound matter decaying unbound matter, particle decaying into wave then the only instance that motion ceases is the beginning and the end. Now some people cannot acknowledge the strong possibility that the universe is increasing its accelerating expansion rate because that means to them the the universe cannot recycle. Unfortunately they do not understand the very nature of three concepts, energy, attraction and repulsion because if they did then they would understand why matter condenses and under what type of basic principles energy loss = attraction and underwhat principles energy loss = repulsion. It is when there is full attraction and full repulsion of matter, including space itself that motion stops. Unfortunately no one will be around as an observer.

[analog]

Hello Dr. Josh

Originally Posted by joshua

If you could image that the universe is running on the on a concept of bound matter decaying unbound matter, particle decaying into wave then the only instance that motion ceases is the beginning and the end.

In an absolute motion framework, motion never truly ceases; it too, along with fundamenatal matter in the form of aether obeys conservation laws. The initial state 'beginning' had absolute one degree of freedom linear velocity (absolute uniform motion), which means that the entire aether was at its absolute condensed state (bound matter;perfect symmetry) as it propogated through the void; this defines temperature as degrees of freedom. At present, our universe is asymmetrical as varying volumes are at different stages of absolute motion from uniform to random, whereby lies the contrast of time we see before us as volumes become autonomous to the motions of other volumes. In the initial state all relative time was contained outside of the aether as there was no contrasting internal motions to give rise to it.

As absolute linear velocity of the aether has slowed, random directional motion gives rise to our present state of expansion. The same amount of absolute motion is still present; it has just reverted from uniform (which gives rise to condensation and linear velocity) to random (which gives rise to expansion, varying internal degrees of freedom, and varying degrees of internal relative time).

The 'end' will still be expanding, but the question remains; will the varying instances of uniform motion in our universe revert the expansion back to the intial state, or will the universe expand indefinately? Perhaps, just as it can only condense so much, it can also only be stretched so much until self affinity causes a universal contraction.

Originally Posted by joshua

Now some people cannot acknowledge the strong possibility that the universe is increasing its accelerating expansion rate because that means to them the the universe cannot recycle. Unfortunately they do not understand the very nature of three concepts, energy, attraction and repulsion because if they did then they would understand why matter condenses and under what type of basic principles energy loss = attraction and underwhat principles energy loss = repulsion. It is when there is full attraction and full repulsion of matter, including space itself that motion stops. Unfortunately no one will be around as an observer.

In my opinion, matter (aether) condenses from the more randomized medium of "space" due to uniform motion. Its ability to convert apparent "space" into autonomous structured matter and convert structured matter back into apparent "space" is the key to understanding repulsion and attraction as seperation of autonomous structured matter is made possible by the same substance that it uses to condense and form itself.

A post from yesterday in JAK's thread Time Tubes and Cones:

Originally Posted by analog

Just as there is no void within the aether, and even perceived "space" between autonomous structured matter (uniform motion) is filled with a fabric of unstructured randomly moving aether, it is this unstructured aether that gives apparent seperation to autonomous structured matter, and being as structured matter can be formed from the condensation of unstructured volumes of aether (space), and unstructured volumes of aether (space) can expand from structured matter, perceived attraction and repulsion can thus be viewed as an integral part of this transformation, whereby the apparent change in proximity is due to the conversion of the apparent "space" which gave the perceived seperation to begin with; thus you find your electromagnetism, along with some other perceived "forces".

regards,

Tim

[joshua]

Originally Posted by analog

Hello Dr. Josh



In an absolute motion framework, motion never truly ceases; it too, along with fundamenatal matter in the form of aether obeys conservation laws. The initial state 'beginning' had absolute one degree of freedom linear velocity (absolute uniform motion), which means that the entire aether was at its absolute condensed state (bound matter;perfect symmetry) as it propogated through the void; this defines temperature as degrees of freedom. At present, our universe is asymmetrical as varying volumes are at different stages of absolute motion from uniform to random, whereby lies the contrast of time we see before us as volumes become autonomous to the motions of other volumes. In the initial state all relative time was contained outside of the aether as there was no contrasting internal motions to give rise to it.

As absolute linear velocity of the aether has slowed, random directional motion gives rise to our present state of expansion. The same amount of absolute motion is still present; it has just reverted from uniform (which gives rise to condensation and linear velocity) to random (which gives rise to expansion, varying internal degrees of freedom, and varying degrees of internal relative time).

The 'end' will still be expanding, but the question remains; will the varying instances of uniform motion in our universe revert the expansion back to the intial state, or will the universe expand indefinately? Perhaps, just as it can only condense so much, it can also only be stretched so much until self affinity causes a universal contraction.



In my opinion, matter (aether) condenses from the more randomized medium of "space" due to uniform motion. Its ability to convert apparent "space" into autonomous structured matter and convert structured matter back into apparent "space" is the key to understanding repulsion and attraction as seperation of autonomous structured matter is made possible by the same substance that it uses to condense and form itself.

A post from yesterday in JAK's thread Time Tubes and Cones:



regards,

Tim

Hi Analog,
I finally have a real computor to type with today. Anyhow there are a few simularities with what we state we do describe events from unique and different perspectives.

You are describing events from the perspective of the verb and I am describe am describing events from the perspective of the noun. I find that quite interesting.

I believe I see a flaw or two in your understanding but maybe not so if you will, describe to me your theories mechanism of decayed particle decay due to increasing acceleration.

In other words, the decay rate of known sub atomic particles can be manipulated, of slowed, by increasing the relative speed of the subatomic particle.

From my perspective I can describe the mechanism in change in decay rate and I can use current formulas, can you describe the change in observed decay rate with your Toe theory?

[analog]

Hi Josh,

I can't take credit for much of this theory, being as Dave invisioned most of it thirty years ago, and though I invisioned a lot of it on my own, before I met him, I've been pulling from his views a lot lately, and I've adopted much of his terminology, because It lets me better describe what I see in my mind.

To accelerate an autonomous volume (particle) we are manipulating direction and imposing it on that volume, whereby causing it to linearly accelerate which is a form of uniform motion and allows for further condensation or perhaps a change in any perceived decay rate, being as it would take less angular momentum (another form of uniform motion) to maintain the same state of condensation as a less linear accelerating volume/particle. This is similar to the contraction of an object in the direction of travel described by relativity, which further explains relative time, but an object is made up of many autonomous volumes (particles) and when direction is imposed upon them, it causes their motions to become more linear in the direction of travel; thus they are moving in varying directions (random motion) less often, and being as frequency affects the relative dimensions of an object, a perceived contraction in the direction of travel is noticeable from a slower moving reference frame, but if two objects linearly accelerate together, they also contract together; thus no perceived change.

Hope this helps explain myself,

Tim

[joshua]

Originally Posted by analog

Hi Josh,

I can't take credit for much of this theory, being as Dave invisioned most of it thirty years ago, and though I invisioned a lot of it on my own, before I met him, I've been pulling from his views a lot lately, and I've adopted much of his terminology, because It lets me better describe what I see in my mind.

To accelerate an autonomous volume (particle) we are manipulating direction and imposing it on that volume, whereby causing it to linearly accelerate which is a form of uniform motion and allows for further condensation or perhaps a change in any perceived decay rate, being as it would take less angular momentum (another form of uniform motion) to maintain the same state of condensation as a less linear accelerating volume/particle. This is similar to the contraction of an object in the direction of travel described by relativity, which further explains relative time, but an object is made up of many autonomous volumes (particles) and when direction is imposed upon them, it causes their motions to become more linear in the direction of travel; thus they are moving in varying directions (random motion) less often, and being as frequency affects the relative dimensions of an object, a perceived contraction in the direction of travel is noticeable from a slower moving reference frame, but if two objects linearly accelerate together, they also contract together; thus no perceived change.

Hope this helps explain myself,

Tim

I understand what you are undertanding about the relationship between motion and change in volume but I do not see the mechanism of how time itself would be effected by motion in this case, you made a jump with out the steps in between.
Now look at how concrete this example is.

If time were a function of natural decay from each qunta of matter into the gravitational wave like a note of C is a wave function of a generated sound wave, in other words, both time and sound are loss of energy transfers into waves from points of origin, then if I start playing a note of c but at the same instant travel at the speed of sound, I never hear the note of C, not one wave frequency has passed me. Now if I start out on earth and travel the speed of the gravitational wave then relative to the Earth not one wave frequency has passed me and relative to the Earth, since time is a measure of wave frequency as the note of c is a measure of sound frequency, I have not aged relative to the Earth's observed time. Since relative space is defined in this example as wave length time dialation and wave contraction both apply perfectly and fit the exact mathmatical formulas of such.

In your example there is an Idea, a concept but with out the mechanical understanding to relate the math.
In my example the math is addressed and explained as a wave function and works quite well and relates in many ways to solving all of the problems. In my example gravity, or wave synchronization is a direct function of an emitted wave also following the rules of radiation with constructive wave interference and Huygen's principle of multiple system interaction where I do not see your alternative explaining any of that. I see the gravitational constant as a natural restriction of wave syncronization, I don't see the same type of conclusion here.

[analog]

Originally Posted by joshua

I understand what you are undertanding about the relationship between motion and change in volume but I do not see the mechanism of how time itself would be effected by motion in this case, you made a jump with out the steps in between.

Absolute time is a measurement of, and is manifested due to absolute motion, and is also conserved along with absolute velocity. At any given instance, the same amount of matter is present (aether) and the same amount of motion, time, and velocity is taking place within our universe; it is the varying directions in which motion takes place that gives rise to the contrasting asymmetrical universe before us; which allows for seemingly autonomous matter, motion, time, and velocity.

The initial state of the aether as it propagated through the void with absolute linear velocity, thus one degree of freedom, had no internal relative time. Time was absolute and the only noticeable change in motion was external due to all of the quantum resolutions of the aether traveling at their most condensed state in the exact same direction with the exact same velocity. Now, after the initial event/collision/bang, which caused the varying direction, the amount of linear velocity, and time that was lost externally are now conserved internally causing the internal contrast/expansion within the aether which gives rise to our current universe. Our current state of universal expansion is the mechanism for the conservation of motion, time, velocity, etc. Our universe is not running out of anything as I feel you believe, it's rearranging itself by means of expansion/contraction which is how it conserves everything.

Relative time is measured by a clock and it is the clock that dialates due to it being made of the same substance which it is measuring the motions of (the aether); thus its dimensions which allow for the measurements are also relative to its current linear velocity. This means that a similar clock traveling at a different linear velocity will also have a different relative dimension, whereby it will also record a different relative measurement. Its dimensions and its measurements contract and expand with any change in linear velocity due to the conservation laws. The same amount of time is ever-present within our universe; it just gets distributed proportionally along with the absolute motion and velocity due to varying direction.

I often give the aether a quantum resolution and imagine it interacting as particles with absolute motion and velocity causing vibrational frequency as they collide with varying degrees of spatial freedom. Here's an old post referring to that view:

Originally Posted by analog

Relative time/motion comes into play as these fundamentals build more massive objects, whereby an object moves with a fraction of the absolute velocity available to it as it moves through a less dense/more randomly moving medium. The fundamental constituents are at absolute velocity, with random direction, within their own space, as they create frequency, but the massive object they form is moving linearly in one direction at a fraction of the available absolute velocity. The increasing ratio of linear forward velocity of the massive object to the absolute velocity of the fundamentals that form it causes for the retraction of the size of the object, due to decreasing the frequency of the random directional motion which contributes to its dimensions by causing the internal seperation of the fundamental builders.

This gives rise to the relativity of mechanical time. As the acceleration of a massive object nears absolute velocity, it is actually causing the fundamentals that form it to move more linearly as a whole, whereby the frequency at which they are traveling at other random directions is reduced, and the whole massive formation reaches closer to the available absolute velocity. Absolute velocity is reached when fundamental particle frequency becomes zero (thus one degree of freedom) and all the fundamentals are continuously moving in the same linear direction, but there's more to the acceleration of a massive object, which I won't bore you with.

I'm not certain that absolute linear velocity can be acheived internally within the aether, but would more likely take place along the edge of the aether, whereby the leading edge being accelerated was no longer traveling through a less dense medium of aether, but was now traveling through the void as it was accelerated to absolute linear velocity. This could possibly reflect some views of black hole singularities as there would once again be no contrast of motion/relative time within a volume that reached absolute linear velocity. I'm still thinking on this one.

Originally Posted by joshua

In your example there is an Idea, a concept but with out the mechanical understanding to relate the math.

How much more mechanical can I explain it? The math should show how all properties of matter/aether (motion, time, velocity, etc.) are conserved by the mechanism of an expanding and contracting universe/aether by means of a spectrum of motion which allows for no autonomous volumes due to absolute uniform motion (absolute symmetry) at its most condensed state all the way to the other end of the spectrum whereby all volumes at the lowest quantum resolution are seemingly autonomous due to absolute random motion (also absolute symmetry) at its most expanded state. We are currently somewhere in-between (asymmetrical) which is why we have the ability to measure seemingly autonomous dimensions, times, and velocities of matter/aether; but nothing is truly autonomous as all dimensions, times, and velocities are relative to each other due to their inability to not exist; which means they must be conserved.

Originally Posted by joshua

If time were a function of natural decay from each qunta of matter into the gravitational wave like a note of C is a wave function of a generated sound wave, in other words, both time and sound are loss of energy transfers into waves from points of origin, then if I start playing a note of c but at the same instant travel at the speed of sound, I never hear the note of C, not one wave frequency has passed me. Now if I start out on earth and travel the speed of the gravitational wave then relative to the Earth not one wave frequency has passed me and relative to the Earth, since time is a measure of wave frequency as the note of c is a measure of sound frequency, I have not aged relative to the Earth's observed time. Since relative space is defined in this example as wave length time dialation and wave contraction both apply perfectly and fit the exact mathmatical formulas of such.

Absolute time takes place at absolute linear velocity, and if you were to be accelerated to absolute linear velocity, whereby becoming absolutely condensed; thus also becoming an absolutely uniformly moving volume (zero internal contrast; thus no way to maintain your current asymmetrical form), you wouldn't hear/experience the T note either. It would be as if time ceased, but you would never know it.

[dleviwing]

Hi Doc (Joshua);
Good to see you’ve returned to us but you could have used your old account; it’s still active.

You and Tim seem to actually be talking somewhat about the same thing but just using different terminologies. The best way to visualize space (Aether) is as a pure void filled with fundamental matter in a state of randomized EM waves; (chaotic motion of the fundamental substance). The process that causes expansion and condensation of the fundamental matter in this state of motion is the constructive and destructive wave interference. This results in destructive interference or expansion, and constructive interference or virtual particle.

The wave functions of particles are less chaotic and thus form wave symmetry consisting of fundamental and harmonic waves that are locally confined by the angular momentum of the particles. We call the constructive and destructive interference of these waves, attraction and repulsion and the influence of these waves on the spatial environment as their charge. Wave symmetry is another type of uniform motion and thus it results in a condensing of the fundamental matter; the shorter the wavelength, the greater the condensing and stronger the bonding of the fundamental substance of the universe.

The main thing to keep in mind is that uniform motion allows the fundamental bonding property of the fundamental substance to become more effective resulting in the condensing of the substance; another way to view it is that uniform motion is the cause of “mass” and thus mass is a measure of uniform motion of an object; rest mass and relative mass therefore are actually caused by the same thing; uniform motion. The matter of our universe cannot be at “absolute rest”; it can only be in a state of “absolute motion”; conservation laws rely on this fundamental concept even though science has yet to realize it. The terms “mass” and “energy” are both measures of matter in motion; only the types of motion are different.

[joshua]

Originally Posted by analog

Absolute time is a measurement of, and is manifested due to absolute motion, and is also conserved along with absolute velocity. At any given instance, the same amount of matter is present (aether) and the same amount of motion, time, and velocity is taking place within our universe; it is the varying directions in which motion takes place that gives rise to the contrasting asymmetrical universe before us; which allows for seemingly autonomous matter, motion, time, and velocity.

The initial state of the aether as it propagated through the void with absolute linear velocity, thus one degree of freedom, had no internal relative time. Time was absolute and the only noticeable change in motion was external due to all of the quantum resolutions of the aether traveling at their most condensed state in the exact same direction with the exact same velocity. Now, after the initial event/collision/bang, which caused the varying direction, the amount of linear velocity, and time that was lost externally are now conserved internally causing the internal contrast/expansion within the aether which gives rise to our current universe. Our current state of universal expansion is the mechanism for the conservation of motion, time, velocity, etc. Our universe is not running out of anything as I feel you believe, it's rearranging itself by means of expansion/contraction which is how it conserves everything.

Relative time is measured by a clock and it is the clock that dialates due to it being made of the same substance which it is measuring the motions of (the aether); thus its dimensions which allow for the measurements are also relative to its current linear velocity. This means that a similar clock traveling at a different linear velocity will also have a different relative dimension, whereby it will also record a different relative measurement. Its dimensions and its measurements contract and expand with any change in linear velocity due to the conservation laws. The same amount of time is ever-present within our universe; it just gets distributed proportionally along with the absolute motion and velocity due to varying direction.

I often give the aether a quantum resolution and imagine it interacting as particles with absolute motion and velocity causing vibrational frequency as they collide with varying degrees of spatial freedom. Here's an old post referring to that view:



I'm not certain that absolute linear velocity can be acheived internally within the aether, but would more likely take place along the edge of the aether, whereby the leading edge being accelerated was no longer traveling through a less dense medium of aether, but was now traveling through the void as it was accelerated to absolute linear velocity. This could possibly reflect some views of black hole singularities as there would once again be no contrast of motion/relative time within a volume that reached absolute linear velocity. I'm still thinking on this one.



How much more mechanical can I explain it? The math should show how all properties of matter/aether (motion, time, velocity, etc.) are conserved by the mechanism of an expanding and contracting universe/aether by means of a spectrum of motion which allows for no autonomous volumes due to absolute uniform motion (absolute symmetry) at its most condensed state all the way to the other end of the spectrum whereby all volumes at the lowest quantum resolution are seemingly autonomous due to absolute random motion (also absolute symmetry) at its most expanded state. We are currently somewhere in-between (asymmetrical) which is why we have the ability to measure seemingly autonomous dimensions, times, and velocities of matter/aether; but nothing is truly autonomous as all dimensions, times, and velocities are relative to each other due to their inability to not exist; which means they must be conserved.



Absolute time takes place at absolute linear velocity, and if you were to be accelerated to absolute linear velocity, whereby becoming absolutely condensed; thus also becoming an absolutely uniformly moving volume (zero internal contrast; thus no way to maintain your current asymmetrical form), you wouldn't hear/experience the T note either. It would be as if time ceased, but you would never know it.

You make a lot of assumptions such as the existence of a void. Your are basically stating that motion changes dimension and therefore time and space. I don't buy it but okay let's say I am wrong. I do see simular aspects as I understand but I don't see others.
Since we know that gravitation can act as acceleration and acceleration act as
gravitation. Let me understand, say as a fifth grader would how you explain the fact that I would age slightly quicker on Mount Everest than I would in Death Valley?