[PoPpAScience]

Hi austin;

I am also enjoying our conversation on 'Cosmic business. I do not think you are reaching the end to your human powers of reasoning. I think as long as you are engaging your mind in places where others are afraid to go, you will constantly receive new incites.

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Your statement above is all the proof anyone needs, to see the fact that the universe has the ability to fine tune itself, in order to reach another level of evolution. We can ether use the mysticism answer, that the laws where always there to do this. Or, we can state that the laws are the effect, of the cause of fine tuning itself to the level needed, for an evaluational jump.

I personally still can not see a universe becoming 'still born'. In my mind the universe would have to give up on itself for this to happen. As long as the core building blocks are in place the universe will eventually achieve what is needed for it to reach an evaluational jump.

I personally believe that "Aware" is to consciousness, as a cell is to a human. Consciousness to me, is a complex evaluational outcome of evolving life.

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Even though that was well stated above, and is the way I thought for a very long time, it is still the 'chicken before the egg' scenario. I also, thought of the universe as having already evolved to all it can be, and that we are just here experiencing this increment in time. That we could be changing the surface of the future of this universe through our experiences. I think we are influencing the future but not the past.

I personally do not need laws and information to be in place in order for the universe to evolve the way it did. I think that all that is needed is, "Aware" with it's "inherent" nature, of seeking and experiencing with potential. This nature is the core architect of all there is.

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What you are stating above, is the effector of evaluational life. I see as you state above, that the consciousness of living beings, both animal and human, influence quantum events by their attracting the quantum world to their will(needs). All life effects and draws action from the quantum world to its very need. From the time of the great evaluational leap from only evolving material, to life, material has been at the beckon call of Life.

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Originally Posted by austintorn@aol.com So, I hereby declare that the superimposed potential of all possibilities created the Universe through the probabilities sequenced by Awareness as those that would be flexible enough to form future, just as the purpose of our personal conscious awareness seems to be.

Well spoken austin.

[austintorn@aol.com]

Thanks, Poppa,

It’s certainly not easy to think outside of the physical laws that we have on this side of the Materialization, although even here we must still gulp at the counterintuitive, such as an electron or photon being everywhere and nowhere until it is summoned into being.

I am figuring that the birth of reality (and the raising of this offspring) may surprise us even more with some counterintuitives. However, there’s not much to go on when we try to reach as far back as is ever possible, through the hazy shadows of 13.5 billion years, and before—to the exciting part of conception. We have to be like Sherlock Holmes and look for meaning in Mother Nature’s scant clues, such as superposition, night-dream reality, what’s the Planck length for, why no perfection of humans, why are the stars so far apart (thwarting any escape from an unstable planet), what timelessness implies, why squirrels run under our cars, and the like.

The Universe has come a long way, although progressing much slower than a crippled snail’s pace, but there are now zillions of interdependencies operating. In some areas, the world seems to be very workable, even where we wouldn’t think so at first glance; for example, worms and bugs may be a nuisance to many, carrying diseases, too, but they aerate the soil and pollinate the plants. As for the mosquito and malaria, perhaps the food chain requires this bug.

Ego, anxiety, and violence perhaps derive from the wariness necessary to the human survival mode on the caveman era and remain with us, still, for only an instant of evolution has passed since then, but these aversive substrates may eventually dissipate. Perfection may come with the future. At any rate, anxiety may have been a necessary phase, such as that which teenagers go through, and might even sharpen one’s wits. Interrelations abound.

The deduction is that Aware probably couldn’t foresee everything at once, although this would have been great, but always heads off in a promising direction. (operating at a “cellular” type level.) The next question is how it operates—to which I can say ‘I don’t know’.

Others, like Nobody, whom I appreciate, conceive that even the above could happen instantly in ‘universal time’, but have to wonder why the ‘DNA of the Universe’ seems to be corrupted, for few humans have perfected their nature to find true happiness.

This counterintuitive idea of ‘universal time’ is, I’m guestimating:

— Mortality —

We are chained to Time, to the speed of light,
A fair price in return for existence;
But, the timeless-formless/potential is free
To conceive all there could be, all at once.

— In No Time—

The probable emerged from the possible,
It’s future already past in an instant,
For everything has already happened,
Although we’re just learning about it now.

— One Sums to the None —

The timeless-formless contains every path,
Though as useless as a library of ALL books;
For, its sum of information is zero,
But, one of these virtualities is ours.

— No-Where and Now-Here —

We shine as unreal and shimmering rainbows,
The stable-virtual still usable as the real,
This differentiation is of potential—
Being there’s no way to maintain Nothing.

This may or not be so, but that’s where we have to look—for extraordinary answers.

For sure, we are thrust into this world, willy-nilly, not knowing where or whence; hence, we enjoy our cognition to take-in the beautiful sights and live the best we can.

Neither God (the opposite of simplicity), nor other forever stuff, nor dumb luck, nor science can fully answer (yet) the ultimate question.

Which reminds me of Omar Khayyam, who says:

Earth could not answer; nor the Seas that mourn
In flowing Purple, of their Lord forlorn;
Nor rolling Heaven, with all his Signs reveal’d
And hidden by the sleeve of Night and Morn.

[Felix Schrodinger]

Originally Posted by PoPpAScience I agree totally that the TOE must include everything that there is, and not just the combining of the 4 forces into a new theory. I personally believe that a theory showing the strong, weak, and electromagnetic forces in combination, as being the cause of the effect we call gravity. As only the first step to seeing a bigger TOE that includes the core entity that causes the effect of the forces. Only when the forces are combined in a new theory, will the seekers move onto the next great, as you say, "accepted superpostion of all possiblities in the quantum world".

First things first, PoP

Only when we have a viable paradigm which explains the four 'forces' of nature, can we reliably move on to the other deeper things. The term TOE has thus been adopted to mean the limited explanation of the four forces and even this will be a major scientific revolution.

regards
Felix

[austintorn@aol.com]

Hi Felix,

Good to know about your "masons" underlying the formation of matter (that I read elsewhere)—it is of the nature of Potential.

Do you think that some so-called "fundamentals" (forces or material) could be separate (without unity)?

But I suppose the mason structure and/or Potential would be THE fundamental.

[Felix Schrodinger]

Originally Posted by austintorn@aol.com Do you think that some so-called "fundamentals" (forces or material) could be separate (without unity)? But I suppose the mason structure and/or Potential would be THE fundamental.

Hi Austin

The gravitational field has to have a structure for it to work and this is at the atomic level. We therefore have a lot of room for manouvre before we get down to the Planck level. 'Fundamental' would suggest, to me, a building block which, in combination can be used to make up the sub-atomic particles which we can observe in experiments. My concept envisages a small lego brick with a male (positive) and a female (negative) end. When a number are joined together we would get strings of them which make up quarks which in combination form atomic particles. These strings, which are not related to that of string theory, have a positive and a negative end, hence charge, as well as length which could represent mass. I call them 'legons' for the obvious reason but I have yet to formulate this into an article for TOE.

Does any of this make sense?
Felix

[PoPpAScience]

Originally Posted by Felix Schrodinger First things first, PoP Only when we have a viable paradigm which explains the four 'forces' of nature, can we reliably move on to the other deeper things. The term TOE has thus been adopted to mean the limited explanation of the four forces and even this will be a major scientific revolution. regards Felix

Hi Felix;

"First things first", is actually what I am taking about in this thread. Many very intelligent people have been trying for a very long time to add the mystical force of Gravity, to the other three known forces, and then call it the TOE.

I personally believe that Gravity, is the 'product' of the other three forces, and not an actual force in its self. So, I believe that the TOE is actually to be found, in the someday realization, that the combined interactions between the three known forces, is what we call gravity.

Virtually all thinkers on this subject of the TOE, look at it from the study of the 'chicken', where I look at it from the study of the 'egg'. Over twenty years ago I realized that the study of the 'chicken' was going no-where, so I decided to study it from the perspective of the 'egg'. Thus, "First things first".

The TOE you speak of, to me, will be called "Gravity". The Gravity theory(TOE), will be the discovery of the formula, that uses the three known forces in combination to describe their effect on the macro world.

I could be wrong, but that is how I see things as of this day. The real TOE to me, will go far beyond any discovery of a "Gravity theory".

[Felix Schrodinger]

Originally Posted by PoPpAScience I personally believe that Gravity, is the 'product' of the other three forces, and not an actual force in its self. So, I believe that the TOE is actually to be found, in the someday realization, that the combined interactions between the three known forces, is what we call gravity. ........I could be wrong, but that is how I see things as of this day. The real TOE to me, will go far beyond any discovery of a "Gravity theory".

Hi Allen

Interesting but I don't see how gravity can be comprised of the others. Both gravity and magnetism can be described as effects due to the bending of the fabric of space (the aether) but the strong and weak forces are completely different. I see the strong force as a simple connection of the quarks which make up the particles of matter and the weak force as a result of the probability function which controls the escape of particles from an 'overweight' atom - radioactivity.

Can you at least go some way to providing a little more linkage - for instance do you support the concept of bosons?

regards
Felix

[PoPpAScience]

Hi Jim;

Thanks for the reply to my theory that you made in your FET thread. I posted my reply here because I felt you missed the jest of my Theory. Let me explain where you went wrong.

Originally Posted by Jimbo/ As I started to read your thread I felt it did not work for me because of your use of the words "aware" and "will". But as I read on I realised that your approach and mine and not so different. I have loads of comments to make but for now I will keep it fairly short. I believe that the universe has always existed but that it could have started out in its simplest form as a uniform distribution of a real substance energy. This is equivalent to your description of "potential". You then go on to use the term "aware" as being some sort of kickstart to the growth of the present state of the universe. The equivalent of your aware in FET is the centripetal force. Because energy is a continuous substance, even the slightest of disturbances will result in the creation of a centripetal force. Once started it cannot be stopped. In your theory you say that there must be a "will" so that the inward collapse does not continue forever. In FET the "will" is the point where fluid energy becomes solidified. At this point the centripetal force which cannot be stopped builds up upon the solid until there is another "will" equivalent to the point where the inward centripetal force of the fluid energy is counteracted by the outward centrifugal force of the spinning solid force and the neutron particle matures into a hydrogen atom. Thus everything undergoes a natural number of events just in the clockwork universe described by Newton. Like you, my wife has for the last ten years believed that I was the only one with these ideas. In fact we have both been working along very similar lines. The main difference is that I have approached from a different angle in that I was not looking for a TOE but only to explain my surface energy data. Because I started with the assumption that energy is a real substance I have ruled out potential energy as being nothing more than a mathematical way of balancing equations in a theory that is incomplete. However, your notion of "potential" could be applied to fluid energy in its original motionless state. It could even be applied to what is left of the continuum before it is converted into particles and radiation or returned to the continuum as photons run out of energy and particles are destroyed in supernovae. Hence the universe is now in a state of dynamic equilibrium. Since discovering FET I am of the opinion that once the first tiniest motion appeared the universe had no option but to develop in the way that it has. Unlike the big bang theory where many constants had to be fine tuned in order for our universe to appear out of an endless number of possibilities, with FET nothing had to be pre-planned or organised by any form of intelligence and the only parameter to affect the state of the universe is the density of solid energy. If this were different then particles would still have formed, and so would forces, atoms, stars and galaxies, but with different sizes.

I believe that the womb that gave birth to this Universe existed forever, and this would be the "Paradox of Potential". "Aware" is the child that came forth from this womb, and we are experiencing its growth right now.

"Potential" is the medium of volume that "Aware" fills. "Aware" is the Something that came from Nothing(Paradox of Potential), and thus is inherent with "Potential".

"Aware" has become "energized" by its interaction with "Potential". "Potential" is that what makes "Aware" be more then it was before. "Potential" is, all the driving forces behind creation. "Aware" is the Something, that by the force of "Potential", becomes "Energized" "Being".

"Potential" is all the "Forces" that we see in action, but can not capture in a test tube. Forces like "centripetal", and "centrifugal". These "Forces of Potential" make "Aware" "Energized" with "Being".

When I use the idea of "Will", I am talking about an "Act" by "Aware" to stop its initial conception. All before the "act" of "Will", by "Aware", was "Aware" filling and creating, a "volume" within "Potential". "Will" was the self determining "Act" that stopped "Aware" from creating "Volume" and reflecting back upon itself. This reflecting back from the "Act" of "Will" is what gives "Aware" the slightest nudge needed to set "Potential" in motion.


"Potential" in "Motion" "Energizes" "Aware" with "Being".

One must see the initial conception of "Aware", in "Potential", before the "Act" of "Will", as a creating of "Volume" within the "Zero point" of its "popping". One must visualize the creating of a "Volume of a sphere" in reverse. In a mathematical term, one must add a "negative sign to the r", in the formula for the volume of a sphere, and r must be seen as a generating factor in the creating of volume from the "Zero point" of popping. The "Act" of "Will" is what stopped r from being a generating factor to a factual number. One must see that "Aware" fell in upon itself creating its own "Volume", for there was "Nothing" but itself to be aware of.

I hope this makes things clearer Jim. This is how I see things right now between our theories:

"Aware" is the "Continuous Substance" that you speak of, that is moved by "Potential"(Vortex), giving it "Fluid Energy".

What do you think of this statement Jim?

[PoPpAScience]

Originally Posted by Felix Schrodinger Hi Allen Interesting but I don't see how gravity can be comprised of the others. Both gravity and magnetism can be described as effects due to the bending of the fabric of space (the aether) but the strong and weak forces are completely different. I see the strong force as a simple connection of the quarks which make up the particles of matter and the weak force as a result of the probability function which controls the escape of particles from an 'overweight' atom - radioactivity. Can you at least go some way to providing a little more linkage - for instance do you support the concept of bosons? regards Felix

Hi Felix;

I am sorry for taking so long to answer you post, but I have had a hard time coming up with an answer that I would be comfortable with. I am in a transitional view of the makeup of the subatomic world. What I can say is that I do believe that all forces that have action and yet no substance are all the same, they are "Potential" at work. This action of "Potential" has an attractive force in the way that it draws the core substance of the universe in upon itself. If you have a planet that is made up with zillions of individual "Potential attractive actions" in play, it seams to me that the combined sum of these actions would draw upon, that which comes in contact with its influence.

Right now I am having a problem with the findings of accelerators. I am wondering if the experiment, is creating the findings, by adding motion or energy to the findings. Or, like some have suggested that the findings are just the measuring of the "debris field" created by the collision.