[Rufus]

Group

As much as I hate to attack existing theories, it is necessary to remind the proponents of their inherent weakness.

The Big Bang Theory: Please correct me if I'm wrong but the current version states that material somehow condensed into a super dense point and then underwent some cataclysmic change that both began time and began to fill space with the newly formed galactic material from some initial explosion.

Unfortunately for this theory to work you would need certain conditions prior to this event. Those being the lack of time but the presence of space and the original material to begin this. This can only be considered as a shortcut to evolution without any idea of a continuum.

The obvious questions are: Where did this material come from and how did seemingly purposeless material get created in the first place?

There was no material for the big bang and for us to think of time as having a beginning would mean the design of pre-time conditions.

Particle Theory: The large particle accelerators were built with the purpose of understanding the building blocks of matter. Many of these have been built and at least one more is on the way and still scientists have been unable to gather even the smallest bit of matter. There is no matter. Also since energy is defined as the movement of matter, there is no energy either. We and the universe we live in is not based on material of any kind. We think it is and that makes it appear to be so but we live in a mental universe and not a material one.

Rufe

[Funk]

So if everybody died the universe would disappear?


Funky

[Rufus]

yep...without an observer there is no reality. Reality is an observed thing.

and thanks for your immediate comment.

Rufe

[Guille]

Originally Posted by Rufus yep...without an observer there is no reality. Reality is an observed thing.

I disagree.

If a tree falls in a forest but there is nobody to see it fall (or any animal) it still does fall.

Observes aren't reality; observers are relative and subjective. Reality is nature itself as a whole as well as objective.

Although this theme is philosophic not scientific.

[subversion]

Originally Posted by <<>> If a tree falls in a forest but there is nobody to see it fall (or any animal) it still does fall.

This may be true, but can only be verified when we see the fallen tree. Thus the verifiable world is based only on observation.

[Guille]

Originally Posted by subversion This may be true, but can only be verified when we see the fallen tree. Thus the verifiable world is based only on observation.

it is. There is a true reality, but it's impossible to know about it. Thus, even the point of view of nature as a whole, is a point of view, thus, it's subjective, relative, and an observation.

[dustin_archibald]

Originally Posted by Rufus Where did this material come from and how did seemingly purposeless material get created in the first place?

It is possible that there was a universe existed before this one. At some point it collapsed upon itself, did some magic, and this universe was created from the old one. If that isthe case then these expansions and collapses of different universes could have and will happen an infinite number of times.

[mkirkpatrick]

All is thought,all is mind,the idea made manifest,and projected via the point
of insersion.the protyle atom,into objectivity.material being the clothes or soul
the garment for thought to wear,you cannot have Naked thoughts and Ideas
running arond ,now can You.




kind regards michael.

[Marko]

Originally Posted by Rufus We and the universe we live in is not based on material of any kind. We think it is and that makes it appear to be so but we live in a mental universe and not a material one.

Observer is very important, but we do live in the material universe, furthermore we are the material.I think that we, humans, have self awareness and our existence is unique, by the series of accidents combined with the probability. I think that only humans "really exist". But things were happening long before humans appeared, and we definitely depend on that matter and energy. What is possible to do, is to deduct all the existence on the two sides: humans- rest of the universe ( animals,plants,rocks,water,energy...).
But I cant say that matter is not important. It may not "really exist", but that "nothing" created us.For deeper understanding it is necessary to work both with mind and matter.They are both very important.

[mkirkpatrick]

The material universe is just exhibiting the outward sign of the inner mental thought and the material world isthe result of this ideation made manifest,so in
effect andin cause also,all is mind.

kind regards michael.