A possible link between life and a ToE?

[SteveA]

I posted this elsewhere, but figured the idea deserved a new thread. I consider it an interesting idea, but as always, that's a subjective thing You'll have to judge it for yourselves.

Let's assume that this universe is a nested structure - the fundamental "unit" upon which it was constructed is/was similarly could be a thing constructed from the evolution of unknown previous things - universe within universe etc. Like calling subroutines in a program. Every layer has an "umbelical cord" back to the previous structure, though it could be considered to be on an infinitesimal scale.

As an analogy, let's say we want to compute x squared. Well if we're using a set of Legos then we have to put together something reflecting this (a more fundamental question is where the desires and selections of such things "comes from").

Well, we need something to represent what "1" is or we can't "see" x squared because there would be no perspective of what the "1s" are that are being used. So implicitly, "looking at" something is making a comparison between two things.

How do we construct "1" if we're at some unknown point in the evolution of a whole bunch of other possible computations? Well, we can "look at" what already exists and compare it to itself (not exactly, but sort of). The manner to do this is to determine a relatively small structure that mimics the properties of the current universe and then "grow" this in order to have something similar to a replica, in which case comparing the two should result in (an approximate) equality and similarly that relationship is the foundation of new (approximation of) "unity".

This "new unity" is then (approximately) without any particular inertia, history or past etc. It's the foundation for a new infinite potential of growth.

We can similarly compare this with genetics and reproduction where a strand of DNA splits (with mutations) and joins with some new strand of DNA. It retains few accumulated characteristics of the previous evolutionary sequence (though it's still ultimately tied back to whatever initial source there might be, which in many ways we could also similarly say is the unknowns in the environment).

It could be that's where instincts or emotions tie into the picture - a genetic history of what has occurred to reach a specific and the road map that ties it back to an origin as well as the ability to recreate (with some inaccuracies) the conditions of that origin.

... then again, past history does not need to reflect future performance, and that's just one possibility, there are many other interesting possibilities and we might want to diverge and do some sightseeing. With 2 bodies we have a nice stable orbital, but N-body problems can be fun to solve too and we could potentially embed that within an incredible mix of options along the way, interleaving infinities in ways that probably go beyond (current) imagination. Then connect up that full sensory, multi-perceptual "surround sound" experience and that would be a tough offer to resist (interleave a timeout to "return" from the subroutine in order to do a little more work, if needed, and it's at least difficult to think of much of anything better - that would keep the mandatory "death", but it might be worth looking at dropping the mandatory "taxes" part - or maybe those are two words for the same thing? ).

Sounds a lot like life already ... could be that's getting a little closer to "seeing" the origin of it all.

(I admit it's a bit hard to think of work right now ... music, women and science ... tough to resist any combination of one or more of those)

[labelwench]

Before you get too excited, LOL, at this point, I'd thank anyone who started a new thread, to add a bit of diversity to the forum.

Rather suspect still, that this place is a 'walk-in clinic' for people with special needs and concerns, and that within very relaxed parameters, the 'patients' are allowed to explore almost any topic, in what is hoped to be, a detached, and somewhat scientific method.

Before any take umbrage with that remark, consider the source, LOL. Obviously, I number myself among the 'inmates', although we are all at liberty, and it is our choice to return to, and participate in this forum, or observe, as we please.

How we got here occupies far less of my time than when I was a teenager. The scale of the universe, or multi-verse, is beyond my personal radar, which is fine. We shouldn't run out of real estate on that scale any too soon, although I think we are occupying the most suitable for our application, at this juncture.

A possible link between life and a TOE, you have titled this thread.

Life IS everything, IMO, no theory needed.

When we can finally comprehend that which separates the quick from the dead, we shall know the TOE.

I'm not getting all spiritual here.

It's an energy that can cross the laws of physics as we perceive them to be now, that's all.

It's always been that way.

And it's only function is to perpetually recycle, into whatever form is most applicable to the present circumstances.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRxSe2lqm1g

[SteveA]

Before you get too excited, LOL, at this point, I'd thank anyone who started a new thread, to add a bit of diversity to the forum.

Oh, and you had just raised my hopes only to dash them into pieces again!

Rather suspect still, that this place is a 'walk-in clinic' for people with special needs and concerns, and that within very relaxed parameters, the 'patients' are allowed to explore almost any topic, in what is hoped to be, a detached, and somewhat scientific method.

Before any take umbrage with that remark, consider the source, LOL. Obviously, I number myself among the 'inmates', although we are all at liberty, and it is our choice to return to, and participate in this forum, or observe, as we please.

Well if there's signs of mental instability on this side of the fence it's that I'm (once again) having a tough time keeping my mind on work (nothing at all unusual in that respect ... it's a chronic "illness" - I'm as incapacitated in many ways as I've always been - hey, I wonder if I can qualify for some "special needs" attention?! Oh yes, I think I'm having a problem ... whichever one qualifies for the special care).

How we got here occupies far less of my time than when I was a teenager. The scale of the universe, or multi-verse, is beyond my personal radar, which is fine. We shouldn't run out of real estate on that scale any too soon, although I think we are occupying the most suitable for our application, at this juncture.

Yes, I think you're right though I can't resist trying to put together all the various "peephole" versions of how things could fit together on a larger scale.

It could also be a case of the grass appearing greener ... but most likely it's that I just love rolling around in all the possibilities.

A possible link between life and a TOE, you have titled this thread.

Life IS everything, IMO, no theory needed.

My bad. I had almost the same thought shortly after posting it.

The basic thought was that an expansion can occur in some arbitrary new dimension/direction, along with a change in properties when something becomes symmetrical and still remain a logical/deterministic thing, because there would be multiple possible valid "next" steps from that point.

As an example, if we had two possible solutions to something, then we have some freedom of choice. If something is determined to only be a single result, then we have no choice and it's a linear evolution.

So how could we create a physical system that is not determined to be just one thing? Well if we have something that is symmetrical and the same in both directions, then a growth could occur in either direction and there is no way that logic could determine which is "correct" (or similarly if we have three symmetrical directions).

Imagine if we have a single perfectly uniform object in all directions and have to place another point next to it somewhere ... is there any way that the previous object could select the direction? No. It would be determined by something outside that object. We could instead say that the space surrounding that object contained the properties.

Let me give a couple more concrete physical examples - let's say you were spinning in space. Inertia keeps you spinning, but instead if it was a perfectly spherical ball "spinning" in space, there's no way to verify how it's oriented - it need no longer spin or it could change orientation etc. Another example would be the complimentary scenario where the surrounding environment is symmetrical - image once again spinning, but this time you're "spinning" in a position where everything else is symmetrically positioned around you (for example, something similar to a lattice structure). In that case there is no preferred direction or manner in which logic could determine a set of rules for the motion - any and all choices are identical from that perspective, though recognize that the physical properties of inertia, charge etc. are not themselves conscious qualities of experience. The "choices" could appear entirely obvious and distinct consciously, yet objectively symmetrical and indistinguishable.

That still doesn't explain why one choice might be selected over another (that's probably once again on another layer of obfuscation ), in which case we'd likely have a similar structure on some other scale of experience (and still potentially predetermined, interconnected and "logical". It's an interesting idea nonetheless).

As another example, consider the environmental and mental "symmetry" of sleep or mediation. In those circumstances, there's little of any asymmetry of experience and not much of anything that could be logically determined to be the "next" state. What's the thing "past" nothing or the thing before first thing?

I'm not trying to say that there's truly anything past nothing or a first thing, but within any particular context of a space or environment of experience or thought etc., where we might be able to determine specific rules of evolution and cause and effect structures, those conditions in which more than a single choice in that structure is as valid as any other would appear to allow for the equivalent of choice or free will and a detachment from those physical rules (reminds of stops on a bus route - you've got to ride to at least the next stop once you're on, but after the ride is over there some decisions about what to do next).

When we can finally comprehend that which separates the quick from the dead, we shall know the TOE.

I'm not getting all spiritual here.

It's an energy that can cross the laws of physics as we perceive them to be now, that's all.

It's always been that way.

Yes, I'd have to agree, though at times it can "hit you" more than at other times. Sometimes it's just words, other times the magnitude of it is almost staggering - in either case, boom or bust, I don't expect the show to stopping soon though considering the possible impact of ones actions in manners and on scales that might generally be overlooked (though I doubt we could ever understand it entirely - on that scale, I'm going to have to stick with the "something else already did it" view and we're simply seeing one possible manner of how things can be).

It did make me stop and think a bit last night though. If one really understood all the impact of their actions ... maybe it's ultimately better not to know? (Hard to imagine that could be the case though, though maybe that's where the blind spots are - the places you don't want to see?)

And it's only function is to perpetually recycle, into whatever form is most applicable to the present circumstances.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRxSe2lqm1g

Thank you for the link and your comment reminded me of the other possibility - if we really saw "all of it" it's likely nothing specific at all. If space contained any and everything - there would truly be nothing to see and no purpose for space to even exist.

(BTW, the "colors of the wind" are some of the dimensions of spacetime - science uses different terms, but it's all the same stuff )

Thank you for the reply and best wishes,
Steve