A Theory of Consciousness, Life and Computation

[Mikal]

The only source I could find was this little blurb....


Umami - the fifth sense of taste
Umami is the Japanese word for the fifth basic sense of taste, after bitter, salty, sour and sweet.

Despite being known in the East for more than 100 years, particularly Japan, it is a relatively new concept to the West where only the four primary tastes are recognised.

Umami means deliciousness in Japanese, but translates best as 'savouriness' and provides the 'meaty' flavour in meat.

It is formed from glutamates being detected by receptors on the tongue and is the reason why monosodium glutamate (MSG) is used as a flavour enhancer.

It is also found naturally in meats, cheeses and mushrooms.

[SteveA]

Thank you both much.

I really appreciate the information on the sensitivities of various senses. That's actually something I'd been quite curious about for a while now, and ... boom, you already had it!

(I've got to copy down that info as it looks like a good start)

I think there's a lot in this. Notice all that for all of these we all have the common origin/zero point that connects them all together in awareness as the "no taste", "no texture", "no vibration", "no sounds", "no light" etc.

That, in that nested polygon diagram is the observer position.

So let's say, for example, that taste is fundamentally composed of 5 discrete "quanta" of experience + the 6th "non" taste experience (similar to how colors can be constructed from red, green and blue + "black", which is similar to time periods "diluting" a color and generating various intensities.

Along similar lines, I've heard that women can see a broader range of red colors (men tend to be color blind as well), so there may be another color in the mix that is not generally recognized. (For example, to me violet and purple look "similar" though violet is brighter .... or just a little "different", but in terms of what the spectrums are than can generate them, they are quite different)

But to model a red, green, blue version of color (which is what most all computers and monitors use), we can see which as being composed of maximum quantities of red, green and blue. In order to generate grey scales we really only need to add "black" to the mix of colors and then we can see all colors as being embedded within a tetrahedron.

This image is just for reference and not how I think colors would be organized.



Instead, imagine the 4 vertices as red, green, blue and black. If we "orbit" around the red, green and blue (RGB) vertices, this could be seen as the centerpoint of the RGB vertices and as the maximum intensity of white. Similarly, something in a 2 phase orbit/cycle around red and green would then be a maximum intensity of yellow, or between red, blue and black would be a dark purple.

It could be that each sense has a specific quantity/wavelength associated with it that is most fundamental. For example, hearing only needs 2 points (the instantaineous amplitude of air pressure for each ear) + no sound (so that the amplitude of a wave can be altered). From there we can generate, over time, stereo hearing.

Actually, if we consider air pressure to be differential, there might even be a way to describe all of hearing as just a single binary bit being rapidly modulated over time because if we had it 50% of the time on one ear and 50% of the time on the other ear, this would generate the equivalent of an equalized air pressure on both sides and "no sound"! (Maybe that's the quantity 2 ... hearing might be one of the first senses. A child in the womb can hear sounds ...)

Notice that for eating, we additionally have smell involved as well as taste and so if, for example (this is just an arbitrary number) if there were 5 different/orthogonal qualities of experience to smell (which would be 4+ no smell), and we had 5 tastes + no taste, this would give us (4+1)*(5+1)=5*6=30 possible qualities in terms of something like tasting and smelling something. (If we included a texture of it like touch, this could increase this).

Notice that touch is fundamentally a 2-D surface, which requires we use 3 endpoints as a triangle, though we'd likely once again need a "no touch" vertex and so that would be a structure like color. Recognize the eyes see color within the context of a 2 surfaces as well, so the totality of vision might be similar to seeing a pair of nested tetrahedron (the "2-D" surface of vision, one for each eye), within another one (3*4=12?), though we have some symmetries that should reduce this. (I need to look at that more closely - there should be some minimum number of states to describe all properties of stereoscopic vision over time)

Anyway, the idea is that every experience describes the equivalent of a number that is factored into all of the diverse properties that are combined together into that experience. (That number could be potentially small, but these would be the equivalent of discrete "quanta" of experience - the smallest noticeable components, and then these should be able to be combined together into higher level and more complex structures that represent more conscious characteristics, and we should be able to find various combinations of properties between "physical" and "mental" as well as areas of experience that might be going overlooked (certainly there are these, if this model is correct because there would potentially exist effectively incomprehensible layers of experience an we'd likely have various pathways through these layers correlate with mathematical structures that tend to generate specific features - though fundamentally it's also very fractal and figuratively "as above, so below" except for a potentially infinite number of "except when such and such occurs" ), and then if we can tie that in with chemical/material properties and show the universe to be the equivalent of a giant molecule on scales we can't observe directly and with properties we haven't yet encountered ... well then, I figure that would be a good beginning to the story ).

A related subject could be brain waves as well. Notice something also, if we have, for example, two low frequencies, but related by some irrational ratio like phi (the golden mean), then there are ways of combining these together and generating higher frequencies, which can describe properties with more detail on finer scales, and in a similar sense we can combine these two wavelengths together to make much larger wavelengths (we can generate the sum and difference of two frequencies by combining them together)

For example, if we had a "reference" of 1 Hz and another frequency at phi Hz or ~1.618033987...

Then by combining these together (with a non-linear/computing element) we can construct both (1+1.618...)~=2.618... Hz and (1.618...-1)~=.618 Hz

Here's an example from radio communication:



Though in graphical/space terms with phi specifically, it more resembles this



If the ratio of these two frequencies is irrational, they can accommodate ranges on any scale we want, from things with wavelengths larger than galaxies to features smaller than subatomic particles.

On the other hand, phi is not something that logic itself "does", and in effect such a structure would be equivalent to exploring something "beyond".

[Mikal]

Here is some more information for you concerning a study I was looking at….

Russian DNA Discoveries
The human DNA is a biological Internet and superior in many aspects to the artificial one. The latest Russian scientific research directly or indirectly explains phenomena such as clairvoyance, intuition, spontaneous and remote acts of healing, self healing, affirmation techniques, unusual light/auras around people and influence on weather patterns and much more.



The Russian scientists also found out that our DNA can cause disturbing patterns in a vacuum, thus producing magnetized wormholes! Wormholes are the microscopic equivalents of the so-called Einstein-Rosen bridges in the vicinity of black holes (left by burned-out stars).



These are tunnel connections between entirely different areas in the universe through which information can be transmitted outside of space and time. The DNA attracts these bits of information and passes them on to our consciousness. This process of hyper-communication (telepathy, channeling) is most effective in a state of relaxation


In humans, hyper-communication is most often encountered when one suddenly gains access to information that is outside one's knowledge base.

When hyper-communication occurs, one can observe in the DNA, as well as in the human, supernatural phenomena.

The Russian scientists irradiated DNA samples with laser light. On screen, a typical wave pattern was formed. When they removed the DNA sample, the wave pattern did not disappear, it remained. Many controlled experiments showed that the pattern continued to come from the removed sample, whose energy field apparently remained by itself. This effect is now called phantom DNA effect. It is surmised that energy from outside of space and time still flows through the activated wormholes after the DNA was removed. The side effects encountered most often in hyper-communication in humans are inexplicable electromagnetic fields in the vicinity of the persons concerned


Electronic devices like CD players and the like can be irritated and cease to function for hours. When the electromagnetic field slowly dissipates, the devices function normally again. Many healers and psychics know this effect from their work: the better the atmosphere and energy, the more frustrating it can be for recording devices as they stop functioning at that exact moment. Often by next morning all is back to normal.

Apparently, DNA is also an organic superconductor that can work at normal body temperature, as opposed to artificial superconductors which require extremely low temperatures between 200 and 140°C to function. In addition, all superconductors are able to store light and thus information. This further explains how DNA can store information.

There is another phenomenon linked to DNA and wormholes. Normally, these super-small wormholes are highly unstable and are maintained only for the tiniest fractions of a second. Under certain conditions stable wormholes can organize themselves, which then form distinctive vacuum domains in which for example, gravity can transform into electricity. Vacuum domains are self-radiant balls of ionized gas that contain considerable amounts of energy. There are regions in Russia where such radiant balls appear very often.

All information is from the book "Vernetzte Intelligenz" von Grazyna Fosar und Franz Bludorf, ISBN 3930243237, summarized and commented by Baerbel.


Regards Mikal

[KWAOUAR]

Respecting the individual collective behaviour perceptual communication differences.

The science sphere percepts experience spiece unity. Visionizing forms and colours as objects parts. Well as a transversal unity diffrenciating sensory modules sensory representations from tact and audition or other sensory modes, brain mental and fisical structures specializing fisiological vividness transmiting skin progress and comprehension form brain and neuroanatomy levels differenciating cerebral stratergies. In a superior cerebral information system.

29 august 2002

A system awareness percepts capable interactions, developing quality control knowledge for the needs of people, system mastery and system inferstructure withn new sources of knowledge, people create knowledge, being that body or mind knowledge. Knowlege being cumulative and extracted from prevaling systems. Senses are human perceptions. This phenomenal thinking of human understanding, master the topic matter learning capabilities. The choice is, consciously tune on every level. Interpretation awareness thinking systems establish form. These methods and degrees of rigor, structure the comunication, balancing the homeostatic state. These elements loop unique cycles of layers in the system that cycle proeffcient enviroment thermostat, these heuristics incorporate frames of mind practice that create enviroments and creativity levels soar, ways of learning capabilities or potencials. Spatial kinesthetic knowledge that learn through body and movement strenghtens diverse mind body brain instructions as a wavelegth connection in learning. This cognitive capability, e-motion / linguistic awareness generates greater fluency, elaboration, novelty, simplicity, craftmanship perfection, beauty, harmoy and balance. these behaviour systems, yield the lessons absorved and build value actions, effects section guides and comunication variations that field computerized solutions as an approach for generated coherence data attachements. methoding productive feedback system pattern percievables.

[SteveA]

I've been wanting to reply to both your comments. There are great thoughts in there and I intend to reply to them, but I'm trying to link up a lot more and really nail down a rather detailed model and connect everything up with an observer, photons, protons and atoms.

(I ordered a few books as well and want to spend some time tying things together with both this http://rstheory.org/ as well as a version that appears to include a bit more precision http://rs2theory.org/, though I'm hoping I can extend upon some of the ideas as well, as I believe there might be a few unique insights to add to it)

I just wanted to say thank you, as well as apologize for not having replied yet. I really want to dot some more I's and cross some more Ts and have something I can begin to build a more solid framework on.

Until later ...
Steve

P.S. As a quick example of the direction I'm looking at - imagine seeing a single photon in a void, you basically have 3 events in time. The initial "void" state and the "flash" of a photon and the final "void" state. There are many ways of interpreting these events as an observer seeing a photon or as a particle with 3 units and no observer (similar to quarks in matter) and there are two views - the "present" before and after the event, which are physically identical, but memory can alter this and we can compress a very large number of observations of systems and components as simply embeddings of the numbers 1, 2 and 3 within each other and then a single time line of all these events passes through them and energy, memory and space can be seen as transformations of this that depend upon how things were interpreted (and the various manners of interpretation allow multiple observers to witness the same "space time").

And as another consider, if we have 4 states, red, green, blue and "black" describe visual color, well we can see "black" but if we attempt to measure the energy of it, it's not seen detectable as a photon or energy. In a similar manner, if we transition through 4 states, there are only 3 possible transitions and not all 4 "colors" are detected (in fact the detector would not be seeing that color but instead a different quality determined by transitions between colors/frequency, just like viewing a 3-D object is seeing a 2-D surface and the 2-D surface is not even the matter of the object but instead the changes to matter that occur via. "energy" - so a photo-detector would be measuring something closer to a change in energy or acceleration instead and in terms of different qualities, and an analogy, we could see it similar to the detector hearing a sound instead, though probably it would more closely correlate to another form of perception).

I'm still putting thoughts together for now, and I'll reply more later.

Thanks again

[Mikal]

Interesting site Steve, thank you for links—when you get into the non-physical part of existence you enter what Philosopher David Chalmers called the “phenomenal and psychological states”—for instance intentional states and emotional states or phenomenal pain versus psychological pain enacted in consciousness and the difference being that one is functional in sensation and the other in perception.

Emotion or E-motion or energy in motion is little constructive to us until we allow ourselves to feel emotion rather than acting through emotion—the former leads to intuition and the later to suspicion, the former leads to determination and the latter to obsessiveness, the former leads to being stoical and the latter to a state of emotional denying, the former leads to depth and the latter to brooding, the former leads to being influential and the latter to being manipulative and finally the former leads to being self-possessed and the later to being self-destructive.

It would really astound us if we realize that we have failed to live from strong, deep feelings so we have failed to have a profound and gut-wrenching relationship with life…..its like we have dropped a dime and as it spins it decides a balance we must find between being too open and just psychic enough to be highly adaptable to all of life not just some of life’s bits and pieces….


Regards Mikal

[THoR]

From what I've gleaned from this thread so far, it seems based on the assumption that life/thought are the result of the phenomenon of emergent properties.

Assume for the moment that life is a construct formed about a single fundamental particle - call it an 'animus' - a yet to be discovered particle which may not have the property of mass, but which acts and reacts to its environment in such a way as to enhance its properties and control its surroundings.

Also assume for a moment that fundamental particles are NOT structureless and homogeneous as depicted in the standard model - that their internal structures can change and be changed into a spectrum of different conditions by both internal and external stimulus.

Given the above, thought may simply be a dynamic of the internal processes within the particle that animates the organism...enhanced by the 'machine' it has evolved from the elements in its environment.

http://www.theory-of-reciprocity/life.htm

[SteveA]

Hi, Mikal

Yes, emotions (or "e-motions") appear to be the driving force and similar to energy, they appear to share a common desire for growth and expansion. So in a sense, similar to ideas of a universal expansion, emotions press outward as well, though similar to gravity, I think they jostle around and "bump into" each other as well

On the other hand, there would appear to be no purpose or direction without emotion. We might consider science to be emotionless, but this is not true - it's a product of desires. To an extent, I think there's an intelligence to emotions and they have a purpose, but I don't know how well coordinated they are and I think that's where ones own intelligence serves a purpose, in coordinating those emotions and allowing that growth to occur, though you can't be dominated by a single emotion without encountering conflicts, nor can you ignore some emotions without paying for it in terms of encountering limits, stagnation and decay, every emotion has a purpose, direction (in an abstract sense) and the potential for growth.

The puzzle in life appears to be figuratively finding a "space" where they all have "homes" and don't need to quarrel or bicker (except for the few that enjoy quarreling and bickering - they can share a place together! LOL)

It appears the general manner to do this without blocking or altering any of these is to (once again, in figurative physics terms) coordinate or synchronize the components that desire to interact together without conflict (similar to providing a coherent/laser light or a new time reference to be shared between them - "traffic lights" (ugghhh ) so that they can avoid collisions), and the ones that don't desire this can be free to expand as space, while the ones that like to bump heads can be similarly left to remain with their desires - matter). Maybe turn "gravity" down a little so they don't keep sucking everything into a black hole?

Space, light, matter and evaporating black holes. It appears the universe has already solved the problem!

I think there's another "element" that encompasses all of this and it's more like a super fluid - fundamentally frictionless, it doesn't lose information and can allow any pathway or combinations of pathways to exist. Though for growth, it can't be constrained and is ultimately chaotic and difficult to predict, but in terms of an optimal "solution", future growth is something that doesn't need to be considered in the present - that's nature doing her job. Time needs the "welcome mat" to stay in front of the door, but it's simply those things already existing that are the significant components.

I think the game plan would be - 1) add more space (allow independence/freedom) and 2) provide greater visibility and a manner to coordinate between the components that desire this, 3) prepare for growth and adaptation of this is in a relatively fluid/dynamic and responsive manner and 4) let the rest stay and bump heads.

That's at least the best solution I can think of, though it's definitely not simple - especially #3, and it may be that #1 is dependent first upon resolving #2 and #3.

I don't think natural laws come with built in limits. The limits at any moment are required to exist in order that things exist relative to those limits - a perfect void has no limits, it's also only a void.

So how do you move the walls fast enough so that they're never actually encountered? Well, you need a space, you need a material to construct walls (matter) and a way to move them (coherent energy) and then you can potentially get a super fluid, but that's a finite and enclosed object without time though, so you need a space to preexist beyond this (before/beyond the Big Bang) and a lot of intelligence to keep it all dynamically growing and beyond that I'd have to say it's a wee bit of luck, though the odds might be biased ... the question is which way. Whenever randomness is added to the mix, things appear to stop there, so that's a pathway that's not very reliable - maybe label that one "emergency exit". I don't think there's a need for it as the rest can already be unbounded.

Well, I'd say if someone wants a challenge, there's a problem that likely provides it (I think most all of science is fundamentally studying the exact same structure, though it's reflected in a myriad number of ways).

[austintorn@aol.com]

Energy in Motion

[SteveA]

I hadn't thought of the fire analogy, but that's an interesting idea too (I was thinking more along the lines of vacuum energy, but I do believe these relationships over different scales are fractal, though divergent and this becomes complex and chaotic, but still the lowest level properties remain but reflected in a myriad ways)

Thor, the link you posted appears to be missing the ".com" but I found what I think you were referring to here http://www.theory-of-reciprocity.com/life.htm.

I had a larger reply but it didn't post and I couldn't recover it , but basically I agree with much of the comments.

I do think there exists emergent properties over time though I think this is the individual/personal view over time, but I assume there preexists a (timeless) space beyond that and oneself should already be a part of that.

So I see it as at least 3 components - a past that is being (re)discovered as well as a dynamic creation (from the perspective of learning and experiencing things through time) as well as an unknown, though in some manner predetermined future and if anything exists beyond that I have no idea really as I'm already extrapolating beyond what could be proven, though I believe that for all intents and purposes, relative to "now" there can be many possible directions (even if from some unknown perspective it could be said to be predetermined, but that's also sort of an illusion that arises from using logic, still it makes sense). I'm mostly trying to piece together those possibilities into something that works well and explains for things for myself, though I'm also trying to share some of those ideas. see what possibilities might exist and sort of return the favor some people have done for me in pointing out directions to explore.