The Theory of NOW

[melanie]

In a dream, events and "history" seem to have occured to create a "context" for the dream. But did any time actually pass?
Is not the universe appearing complete and full every moment in (your) awareness?
Time and space are an idea.
True, they are needed for an object to be said to "exist" - but awareness IS without need of existence.

Do you not feel exactly the same right now as you always have? Do you "feel" the passage of time (without counting seconds)?
All of it - history, passage of time, the myth of the big bang, all appear as IT appearing to itself.
No rules, no laws, all rules, all laws.
Even this conversation, and your apprarent understanding and conceptualizing of your ideas, are just an appearance in mind.
And it ain't "your" mind.
Do you remember being born?
It is one more story.
Look for that which was never born and will never die.

[austintorn@aol.com]

Yes, I felt and also feel the passing of time, and, no, I haven't always felt the same.


Do you remember being born?

I do remember being a gleam in my father’s eye, my first glint of spirit. And half of me seems to remember shooting down some sort of tube and emerging into some liquid, then some kind of olympic swimming race and a merging with an oval football kind of thing and an endless floating about for many months. Then, about a month before I was born, I heard some sounds, like ‘Cootchy-cootchy-coo. Who’s in there?’ Then, the day before I was born, a voice told me that there is a whole big world out there—and I thought, no, there can’t be; there is only water and calm and darkness; that’s all there is—there can be nothing more. I guess I was not such a visionary back then. Then, the next day—I remember it well, for I was born right on my birthday (but had no party until a year later)—I was thrust into the light, and I think my first words were—well, it’s a bit hard to recall them since I was very young when I was born—but, since I am a writer, I did speak my first words early, and I think they were: ‘does anyone have a pair of sunglasses—it’s awfully bright out here.’

[melanie]

Austin's first words .....


''... does anyone have a pair of sunglasses it’s awfully bright out here....''

[melanie]

'' This Space of unbounded Unknowing exposes the ignorance of the notion that there is a "seeker" that can "find" it's own absence!
No amount of reading, study of scripture, self-investigation, therapy, meditation etc etc can possibly result in liberation from this notion.
Why? Because the very notion that "I am a separate entity that can find liberation or awakening" is merely an idea with no substance.
In this Space of Unknowing, that apparent conceptual contraction gets exposed as the sham that it is.
It is truly hopeless to expect that a false entity can somehow "deconstruct itself" or uncover the falseness.
So when there is "personal" ignorance meeting Impersonal Nothingness, this Space of Unconditional Love may crack the foundation on which the false is based... as Wholeness meets apparent separateness the false can be dissolved...
and in this there remains no one who is either bound or liberated. ''

[Meem]

Everything is made of "the stuff," even nothing is "the stuff."

Everything, (the big picture?) changes.
Nothing, (quantum stuff) stays the same.

The eternal, the unchanging.
The universe is eternal, and changing?

–adjective 1. without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing ( opposed to temporal): eternal life.

2. perpetual; ceaseless; endless: eternal quarreling; eternal chatter.

3. enduring; immutable: eternal principles.

4. Metaphysics . existing outside all relations of time; not subject to change.

So, can everything change eternally, and not be subject to change? Is gravity negitive light waves? Do blackholes "accelerate" anything faster than light? Can being be, by not being ... or is it can not being be, being? Is sleeping, really waking ... or waking really sleeping? For a second there, I thought I was God. Then I awoke, and went to sleep and tried to find someone to ask in my dreams. Is being, really awake, like being awake in a lucid dream? I've had a few of those. Some really great ones. I actually tried a few things to do once, to encourage one. As I haven't had one in a while.

The plan was to ask someone to tell me what they know that I dont, about the universe, good, evil, life, death, and a few other types of every-day things. They didn't seem to work though, those things I tried, but I did have a few dreams. And the message I got, "keep dreaming." At the eternal coin flipping competition, who wins, heads or tails? This is what causes particles to spin, because really all they are, dogs chasing their tails.

The interesting bit are the times when you catch a dog that has caught its tail.

What will it do? Bite? Stop? Let it go to catch it again?

[melanie]

You Are That Which Is, Was, and Shall Be, devoid of body or mind or personality when unmanifested and capable, via Full Realization, of being free of body identification and a corrupted ''mind'' and personas while manifested.
All desire and longing and fear can be transcended when you no longer embrace the limited identity of a physical body or the corrupted ''mind'' or any fictional personality.

If you would Realize, then you must understand how this body came to be and where You were during the days prior to conception.
Even more significantly, find what You Are when nothing is because That Which You Truly Are NOW is what You Will Truly Be ''then''

Be yourself the Realfictional character.

[Bogie]

In a dream, events and "history" seem to have occurred to create a "context" for the dream. But did any time actually pass?
Is not the universe appearing complete and full every moment in (your) awareness?
Time and space are an idea.
True, they are needed for an object to be said to "exist" - but awareness IS without need of existence.

Do you not feel exactly the same right now as you always have? Do you "feel" the passage of time (without counting seconds)?
All of it - history, passage of time, the myth of the big bang, all appear as IT appearing to itself.
No rules, no laws, all rules, all laws.
Even this conversation, and your apprarent understanding and conceptualizing of your ideas, are just an appearance in mind.
And it ain't "your" mind.
Do you remember being born?
It is one more story.
Look for that which was never born and will never die.

To the degree that sophistication has to do with a high level of complexity, I am not sophisticated. Keeping things simple and valuing the simple answers over the complex is a good rule. Following that rule can be simple too by knowing how you prioritize your values and then dealing with everything that comes up according to those values. That means that everyone deals with any set of circumstances differently and that explains what makes for individuality I think.

The reason for my philosophical sounding preface is that I can’t grasp the concept of awareness as you are presenting it in the opening post and yet I agree and understand your comment, “Look for that which was never born and will never die”. We don’t remember being born so for all intents and purposes time did not begin for each of us since we know no beginning. And we individually will never know of a moment when we are not living. So the first thing I feel awareness of when I look for that which was never born and will never die is me, my life and everyone else’s lives which will end but of which we will know no end.

That doesn’t have anything to do with what you are saying I don’t think but maybe you will restate the meaning of the OP for me?

[melanie]

To the degree that sophistication has to do with a high level of complexity, I am not sophisticated. Keeping things simple and valuing to simple answers over the complex is a good rule. Following that rule can be simple too by knowing how you prioritize your values and then dealing with everything that comes up according to those values. That means that everyone deals with any set of circumstances differently and that explains what makes for individuality I think.

I totally agree Bogie.

The reason for my philosophical sounding preface is that I can’t grasp the concept of awareness as you are presenting it in the opening post

The concept of awareness cannot be grasped by the ''thinking mind'' because it is prior to 'thought' - It's subtle.

* and yet I agree and understand your comment, “Look for that which was never born and will never die”. *

That would be AWARENESS

We don’t remember being born so for all intents and purposes time did not begin for each of us since we know no beginning.
And we individually will never know of a moment when we are not living.
So the first thing I feel awareness of when I look for that which was never born and will never die is me,
my life and everyone else’s lives which will end but of which we will know no end.

That doesn’t have anything to do with what you are saying I don’t think but maybe you will restate the meaning of the OP for me?

Yes, ok Bogie, put another way .....


YOU will never know death, simply because you were never born.
However, within the dream of separation, in this conception, we all experience "the act of dying"
but absolutely no one will ever experience the "state of being dead"

And this is because ….
"For the living know that they shall die but the dead know not anything…" (Ecclesiastes)

All there is is consciousness, this is already ''self-evident''

''You'' will never ever know anything but CONSCIOUSNESS.
However, It is not 'you' the human mind/body that is conscious, it is consciousness alone appearing as 'you' the human mind/body.
It is the non-conceptual appearing as the conceptual - (CONCEPT_I_ON)

During the ''act of dying'' you never even lost consciousness, because there never was a separate 'you'
It is consciousness alone who experiences the ''act of living and dying'' experiencing itself.

Besides, there's no consciousness in death, so there can be no consciousness OF death either.

All you've ever known is consciousness - birth and death are illusory appearances, but necessary for this virtual reality to appear as real.

[Bogie]

...
The concept of awareness cannot be grasped by the ''thinking mind'' because it is prior to 'thought' - It's subtle.
...

All there is is consciousness, this is already ''self-evident''

''You'' will never ever know anything but CONSCIOUSNESS.
However, It is not 'you' the human mind/body that is conscious, it is consciousness alone appearing as 'you' the human mind/body.
It is the non-conceptual appearing as the conceptual - (CONCEPT_I_ON)

During the ''act of dying'' you never even lost consciousness, because there never was a separate 'you'
It is consciousness alone who experiences the ''act of living and dying'' experiencing itself.

Besides, there's no consciousness in death, so there can be no consciousness OF death either.

All you've ever known is consciousness - birth and death are illusory appearances, but necessary for this virtual reality to appear as real.

Thank you, Mel. There is a metaphysical concept of "universal consciousness" that I think of as a connection between all of us. It is the kind of thing that philosophical thought brings to our mind if we really spend much time contemplating the nature of being. Thanks for sharing that added perspective and congratualtions on arriving at such a simple and universal perspective on life and the "now".

[melanie]

Thank you, Mel. There is a metaphysical concept of "universal consciousness" that I think of as a connection between all of us. It is the kind of thing that philosophical thought brings to our mind if we really spend much time contemplating the nature of being. Thanks for sharing that added perspective and congratualtions on arriving at such a simple and universal perspective on life and the "now".

Thanks Bogie.

There's only NOW - past and future occupy the same space which is always NOW
for there is nowhere else for them to go but here.

''Now'' is a mental concept constructed now via the mind. The mind is no-where now-here ever present.

It cannot move. It is silent.

However...

The mind can can never be silent anymore then the wind can be still.

They are their movement.

The natural mind can become quiescent when it is not being used to help the organism survive.

This is the mind in which the sages spend their alloted time.

The conceptual mind, is insane.......and can never shut up.