Infinity

[Andy]

Infinity is an unnatural, unphysical concept which anybody can't prove.There is no proper defination for infinity. Whatever definations are there for infinity are from humans view which is very short & limited.Try to look thro' nature's view which is very wide, you'll never find infinity. Will nature give birth to a child which even nature couldn't stop? We have met every body of nature, we have met finity,we have met some of the force we know;but have you ever met infinity?No & you'll never meet infinity, because it doesn't exists in our nature. It may exist beyond our nature or may not be existing. I can't say whether something is there beyond our nature but I can say one thing surely and that is "NATURE DOES NOT ALLOWS INFINITY."

[SinJin]

Infinity is an unnatural, unphysical concept which anybody can't prove.There is no proper defination for infinity. Whatever definations are there for infinity are from humans view which is very short & limited.Try to look thro' nature's view which is very wide, you'll never find infinity. Will nature give birth to a child which even nature couldn't stop? We have met every body of nature, we have met finity,we have met some of the force we know;but have you ever met infinity?No & you'll never meet infinity, because it doesn't exists in our nature. It may exist beyond our nature or may not be existing. I can't say whether something is there beyond our nature but I can say one thing surely and that is "NATURE DOES NOT ALLOWS INFINITY."

You say "have you ever met infinity? No & you'll never meet infinity, because it doesn't exists in our nature" at the end, but at the beginning you contradict yourself by saying "Whatever definations are there for infinity are from humans view which is very short & limited". Our views are short and limited, and we know little about what is actually out there, so I don't see why you would rule out infinity so quickly, just because we don't see it in "our nature". As you say, our views are short and limited, and so infinity could possibly exist out there beyond our scope. Besides, infinities do arise in mathematics, and math is part of nature.

[Andy]

what will be beyond our scope Sinjin? I thought on it for a long time and I now agree with Guille that it will be nature only. there will not be some thing that is not nature. Because nature is everything and infinity is purely unnatural and untill now just an concept. yes, math is a part of our nature, but have you actually seen math? have you actually seen knowledge? have you seen cosmology? no, its a science. I accept that infinity do arise in math. its an concept. Einstein's concept of static universe was arised in science but it was disproven. numerically you express infinity as 1/0 . but 1/0 could be anything other than infinity.first of all we haven't got understod properly what zero is. here is what Guille thoughts about it. he sent this to me before going to Oxford:
I think that infinity doesn't have a correct definition because we haven't met with it. I don't think that infinity is beyond nature because for me nature is everything. Including the non-existing things. Relaity is what exists and does not exist, and infinity is out of reality, so not only not exist but not not exist. It is impossible to think now, what does it do then? Because we are used to think of existing and non-existing. Nature does not allow infinity, this is true. Infinity is just a wrong concept: shouldn't be used. Finally, I want to state that it is true that we can think in infinity, we can think about it because we are now discussing it you and me, because we know (or think we know) what it is supposed to be. What we CANNOT DO IS IMAGENING INFINITY. This is an impossible thing.

[Guille]

Andy,

Thanks for posting my ideas on ifninity.

I have been thinking a lot, and I have concluded that infinity MAY be studied by some of our studying branches. Preciselly, philosophy should study the possibilities of existence, but I've already dealed with that. It should explain how can we think about it, what it really is and impplies. Two important questions should be: why did the human mind came along infinity? how can infinity have no size, or ammount, but represent a quantity?

Mathematics should deal with the logical network about infinity (the idea of infinite set). Number theory should deal with the modifications that can be done on infinity (what infinities are bigger than others? WHAT INFINITY-INFINITY?...)

Science should deal with the natrural representations of infinity. But, let me explain: of course there is no natural infinite, biologists that want to count how many apples there are on earth, will have no infinite, preciselly because there should be infinite space,and earth is finite. I mean that, when QM and GR are mixed and give infinites, that is what science should fight and study.

[Cubola Zaruka]

Infinity is greater than both the set of things which exist and the set of things which do not exist. The previous sentence makes sense as long as you do not falsely assume that infinity obeys the axiom of excluded middle, or any other axiom. Anything which can be measured or fully understood in terms of finite entities is finite.

[melanie]

The Infinite

'' The Infinite is a term that refers to the totality of all there is.
It is not a mathematical concept, but a philosophical one.
It is a concept that embraces everything there can possibly be.
There is not a single thing in existence which is not part of the Infinite.
It is literally everything, including ourselves.
And since there is nothing else beyond the Infinite, it constitutes Ultimate Reality.
Sometimes I call it the Tao.

It is important to realize that since the Infinite comprises the totality of all there is, it is not any "thing" in particular.
It is not a specific object or event of some kind.
It is not a person, or a being, or a consciousness, or a force, or a spiritual essence.
It lacks all form whatsoever, even the form of nothingness.
We cannot point to it, or isolate it from the rest of existence, and say "there it is!"
And yet there is never a time when we are not perceiving and experiencing it.
It stands right before our eyes, in all its glory, in each and every moment of our lives.

Although the Infinite is not any particular "thing"
neither is it separate or distinct from the things of this world in any way.

As an analogy, consider a lake of pure distilled water, which is comprised solely of water molecules.
It is easy to see that a particular water molecule within the lake and the lake itself are two completely different things.
And yet at the same time, there is no "lake" over and above the water molecules which form its body.
The sum total of the water molecules is the lake.

Similarly, there is no "Infinite" over and above the finite objects which comprise it.

The things we see around us are literally the Infinite.

There is no hidden mystical realm that we have to seek.
We only have to learn how to open our eyes and see what is already there. ''

[Cubola Zaruka]

The universe with which I am familiar must be finite, since infinity is formless/the sum of all forms. The sum of all things is infinite, so infinity contains other infinite subsets. Whether these are also subsets of the set of things which exist is dependant upon definition. The term 'lake' is more than the sum total of water molecules; it also specifies something about their relative positions but the point of the analogy was to explain that everything is the sum of its parts, which is true, although generalising from a finite lake to infinity may result in contradictions.

[melanie]

the point of the analogy was to explain that everything is the sum of its parts, which is true, although generalising from a finite lake to infinity may result in contradictions.

In reality there are no parts.

Contradiction --- It's a Divine Play, so "I" don't see anything wrong with it.

Existence is always dualistic in nature.
Everything in nature exists in relation to everything else.
But parts which constitute an object are not the object itself.

Just as "up" can only exist in relation to "down", and "big" in relation to "small"
so too an existing object can only exist in relation to what is not that object.

In more formal language, "A" (which stands for any object or event in the Universe) is always dependent upon "not-A", and vice versa.

A thing cannot exist in the absence of other things existing both inside and outside of it.
When these internal and external things are causally arranged in the appropriate manner, the thing in question comes into existence.

But what exactly does come into existence in that moment?

In the final analysis, nothing.

Not a single sliver of anything extra.
If anything does seem to arise in that moment,
it is purely a conceptual projection on our parts.


There is No reality without non-reality, no non-reality without reality.

There is No knowing without not-knowing, no not-knowing without knowing.